10 ms·

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. If this was half the price, I might be interested. But if I wanted a c

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. If this was half the price, I might be interested. But if I wanted a coffee maker with open source control, I'd probably just hack an existing cheaper product. And I'm someone who absolutely loves assembling stuff from kits! Heck, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already got Doom running on a Sage.

dfxm12 2y ago
It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. Exactly. The parent post mentions this being "the wrong solution to the problem", but I don't know what the problem is this product is addressing. E61 machines are well understood and diagrammed with (somewhat) interchangeable parts. If this product appeals to you, you can buy a cheaper/similarly priced machine, take it apart and put it back together yourself.
- a012 2y ago
  And also branded machine got QC before going to my home, instead I’d not trust myself to do anything related to the boilers
  - everybodyknows 2y ago
    Not my Baratza Vario grinder. First two units had line-hot shorted to ground.
    - bch 2y ago
      Now the big question - was Baratza cool to deal with? I haven’t had too much interaction with them, but I replaced (they sold me) a controller board for my Vario-W for a reasonable price, as well as burrs and the drive. The machines are good for what they are, but their service (what they pride themselves on) is exceptional in my experience.
      - everybodyknows 2y ago
        Yes, response was good.
- drrotmos 2y ago
  Oh, don't get me started on what the problem is :D * Espresso machine electronics are very proprietary. There's basically one manufacturer, no published schematics and very closed firmwares. * That one manufacturer's hardware occasionally breaks and needs replacement, and they charge up the wazoo for it. * Firmware updates is not a thing. Buying a new controller with the new firmware is your only option. * Espresso machine electronics hardware is pretty firmly stuck in the past. If you're lucky you have a 128x64 px OLED, but more likely you have LED indicators, 7 segment displays, or graphical LCDs. There are absolutely exceptions to this, but for 95% of the espresso machines out there, you're definitely not getting the full potential of the hardware.
  - dgacmu 2y ago
    Which one manufacturer do you have in mind? Perhaps you're thinking of the commercial market and I'm thinking of consumer, but there's been a lot of really interesting developments in the last few years at the intersection of affordable and high quality output -- I own a plus Bambino plus now, for example, which is simply a delightful machine, though I too wish I could modify the firmware.
    - drrotmos 2y ago
      Gicar. If you're looking at home machines from manufacturers that also do commercial (e.g. Profitec, ECM, Lelit, Rancilio, La Marzocco etc), they almost exclusively use Gicar electronics.
  - dfxm12 2y ago
    I don't think any of these issues are solved by selling you a pile of parts and having you build the machine yourself. An open/more flexible PID is a great idea, but that's just one piece of this product & could be built into an already assembled machine. There are some machines (Decent, Sam Remo You) that give you a lot more control, but even this level of control probably goes unused by a lot of its users if the h-b forums are to be believed. More control than that, or a totally open PID, might be a hard sell for safety reasons. That alone is a nonstarter, but even as you approach that level of openness, it would be pretty hard to support and really isn't needed if you just want a good shot of espresso and aren't taking an niche academic approach to an already niche process. This is why you likely won't see it in more commercial machines.
- 0x457 2y ago
  This is like building your own keyboards. It's for people that like putting things together. I've ordered DIY framework laptop not because it was cheaper, but because it was fun to build it.
  - dfxm12 2y ago
    The last sentence of my post addresses this.
iamwil 2y ago
Do you have a list of recommendations of kits that you enjoyed assembling?

dfxm12 2y ago

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. Exactly. The parent post mentions this being "the wrong solution to the problem", but I don't know what the problem is this product is addressing. E61 machines are well understood and diagrammed with (somewhat) interchangeable parts. If this product appeals to you, you can buy a cheaper/similarly priced machine, take it apart and put it back together yourself.

a012 2y ago
And also branded machine got QC before going to my home, instead I’d not trust myself to do anything related to the boilers
- everybodyknows 2y ago
  Not my Baratza Vario grinder. First two units had line-hot shorted to ground.
  - bch 2y ago
    Now the big question - was Baratza cool to deal with? I haven’t had too much interaction with them, but I replaced (they sold me) a controller board for my Vario-W for a reasonable price, as well as burrs and the drive. The machines are good for what they are, but their service (what they pride themselves on) is exceptional in my experience.
    - everybodyknows 2y ago
      Yes, response was good.
drrotmos 2y ago
Oh, don't get me started on what the problem is :D * Espresso machine electronics are very proprietary. There's basically one manufacturer, no published schematics and very closed firmwares. * That one manufacturer's hardware occasionally breaks and needs replacement, and they charge up the wazoo for it. * Firmware updates is not a thing. Buying a new controller with the new firmware is your only option. * Espresso machine electronics hardware is pretty firmly stuck in the past. If you're lucky you have a 128x64 px OLED, but more likely you have LED indicators, 7 segment displays, or graphical LCDs. There are absolutely exceptions to this, but for 95% of the espresso machines out there, you're definitely not getting the full potential of the hardware.
- dgacmu 2y ago
  Which one manufacturer do you have in mind? Perhaps you're thinking of the commercial market and I'm thinking of consumer, but there's been a lot of really interesting developments in the last few years at the intersection of affordable and high quality output -- I own a plus Bambino plus now, for example, which is simply a delightful machine, though I too wish I could modify the firmware.
  - drrotmos 2y ago
    Gicar. If you're looking at home machines from manufacturers that also do commercial (e.g. Profitec, ECM, Lelit, Rancilio, La Marzocco etc), they almost exclusively use Gicar electronics.
- dfxm12 2y ago
  I don't think any of these issues are solved by selling you a pile of parts and having you build the machine yourself. An open/more flexible PID is a great idea, but that's just one piece of this product & could be built into an already assembled machine. There are some machines (Decent, Sam Remo You) that give you a lot more control, but even this level of control probably goes unused by a lot of its users if the h-b forums are to be believed. More control than that, or a totally open PID, might be a hard sell for safety reasons. That alone is a nonstarter, but even as you approach that level of openness, it would be pretty hard to support and really isn't needed if you just want a good shot of espresso and aren't taking an niche academic approach to an already niche process. This is why you likely won't see it in more commercial machines.
0x457 2y ago
This is like building your own keyboards. It's for people that like putting things together. I've ordered DIY framework laptop not because it was cheaper, but because it was fun to build it.
- dfxm12 2y ago
  The last sentence of my post addresses this.

iamwil 2y ago

Do you have a list of recommendations of kits that you enjoyed assembling?