7 ms·
Other than continuously copying files to new media every so often, are there reliable digital mechanisms for long-term storage (say, 50 years)?
by ftio 2y ago
Other than continuously copying files to new media every so often, are there reliable digital mechanisms for long-term storage (say, 50 years)?
- 1970-01-01 2y agoM-Discs have solved it. Obviously, we don't have 2000 years of data rot to verify it truly works.
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoHow long do the disc readers last?
- 1970-01-01 2y agoThe reader is an ordinary DVD or Bluray drive. It's safe to assume these will continue to be manufactured for 20 more years and if they have solid state components, a shelf life of 100 years afterwards.
- SoftTalker 2y agoHow is it safe to assume that? Who is still manufacturing Betamax tape decks?
- yial 2y agoYou have a point, but considering Betamax tapes only stopped production in 2016, (the recorders in 2002) and the proliferation of dvd / Blu-ray, etc is much higher I think 20 years is safe. 30 however… But is there any format you can promise every part of it will be in production in 20 years ? Amazon still lists some refurbished vhs players but…
- ssl-3 2y agoIt doesn't seem very reasonable to draw conclusions about longevity from any comparison of a rather complex machine like a Betamax deck (that cost a huge amount of money to buy) to something rather simple like a modern Blu-Ray drive ($100, ish). It seems much more reasonable to assume that Blu-Ray hardware will continue to be produced until something else (what?) actually supplants it for cold, off-line data storage. (Also, too: The compact cassette is dead as fuck and has been for decades, even with the niche resurgence in recent years. Yet new machines are still being produced, and so is new tape stock. The format is 61 years old.)
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoDisk drives are not solid state. They have moving parts, motors and belts that can fail.
- teslabox 2y ago> M-Discs have solved it. I have an M-Disc writer and some M-Disc DVDs, so I took note of this submission ~2 years ago: PSA: Verbatim no longer sells real M Discs, now puts regular BD-Rs in M Disc packaging - https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/yu4j1u/psa_verbatim_no_longer_sells_real_m_discs_now/ https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/yu4j1u/psa_ver... / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33593967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33593967
- dehrmann 2y agoWeren't BD-R M-Discs never really M-Discs? The retention only applied to DVDs?
- smitty1e 2y agoObject storage in the cloud is likely to succeed there, but then cost and security issues arise. If data are encrypted, then managing keys is another pain/cost dimension. At the several decade point, keeping copies at multiple vendors becomes a discussion point, since even Google and Amazon are not likely to be immortal, and that Ukrainian data center might experience physical security challenges.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- krater23 2y agoThere was days where a complete bunch of cloud users lost all their data. So, no, this will not succeed too.
- SoftTalker 2y agoNo.
- kev009 2y agoThere are multiple problems. Storing stems or a rendered mix can be fully durable with some care to replicate it sufficiently. But what of for instance the session files, which are likely tied to custom hardware which eventually becomes scarce. Object storage is a fine proposition for long term retention but it does nothing for the organizational problem that someone needs to continuously pay the bill and ensure the provider didn't lose anything, and that can easily get lost in M&A, estate liquidation, etc. The bottom line is, if something is worth saving, you need someone to take on the role of archivist that will balance the technical and economic changes that go with preservation. There is nothing passive about it unless hope is the strategy.
- boilerupnc 2y agoDNA Data storage looks promising [0]. “Another challenge in conventional storage media is their unsuitability for long-term storage, with optical discs, solid-state drives, and hard-disk drives having lifespans of 25 years, 12 years, and 10 years, respectively […] Moreover, the stability of DNA was proved by the successful recovery of ancient DNA under burial conditions. The studies have shown that preservation of DNA does not require additional energy for data storage.“ [1] [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-58386-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-58386-z [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13534-024-00386-z https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13534-024-00386-z
- krater23 2y agoOh interesting. Let me store this DNA sequence that is occasinal the sequence of the spanish flue...
- telgareith 2y agoNo, DNA is terrible. Microsoft's Project Silica seems to be the contender for indefinite, maintenance free, storage. But, there's the whole "It's Glass" issue.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- creer 2y agoRelease the files to the fans?
- metaltyphoon 2y agoWant longer? Seems like MS has a solution? https://youtu.be/-rfEYd4NGQg?si=QoCve6CAPajmmBiX https://youtu.be/-rfEYd4NGQg?si=QoCve6CAPajmmBiX
- ahazred8ta 2y agoThere are high density binary microfilm optical formats on archival grade film stock that should be stable for several hundred years. Although tbh I'm an M-DISC guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_tape https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_tape -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_Once_Read_Forever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_Once_Read_Forever
- lnauta 2y agoMicrosoft is working on storing in glass tiles, which should last up to 10.000 years [1]. Its not commercial yet though. [1] https://unlocked.microsoft.com/sealed-in-glass/ https://unlocked.microsoft.com/sealed-in-glass/
- gfv 2y agoYes, you can chuck your SSD into a freezer. Data retention time increases exponentially in lower temperatures, so keeping it in a regular +4C fridge is enough to extend retention by decades. Just remember to heat up the disk before writing and after storage. https://www.ni.com/en/support/documentation/supplemental/18/effects-of-temperature-on-ssd-endurance.html https://www.ni.com/en/support/documentation/supplemental/18/...
- hinkley 2y agoWhat about frost?
- nolok 2y agoIf my three year old 350€ fridge has a no frost option that never failed or had hiccups in all that time, I assume the industrial one bought to store drives in that hypothetical situation would do to.
- bravetraveler 2y agoYou can generally drench electronics as long as they aren't electrically loaded Corrosion might be a concern but meh, wet for a moment doesn't matter. The drive forgets that part If truly concerned, treat it like a slab of meat and put it in a bag
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago>If truly concerned, treat it like a slab of meat and put it in a bag ...of rice.
- bravetraveler 2y agoThis is shaping up to be a delicious savings plan
- meowster 2y agoSSD: 4/10 With Rice: 6/10 Thank you for your suggestion