5 ms·

I don't think Craiglist has a "monopoly on data", they have a monopoly on their data and they have not incentive to make their data freely available.

by xelipe 14y ago

davidw 14y ago
What Craigslist has is what economists call "positive network externalities" or network effects. Which just means that it's a really valuable service because tons of other people use it. Buyers go there because lots of people are selling, and lots of people selling go there because they know lots of buyers visit the site.
- monkeymace 14y ago
  This is the perennial frustration with the immense power of the network effect, a power that all start-ups live and die on. Unfortunately, us humans have a hard time banding together and forming enough consensus to 'jump ship' enmass to a new service. Especially, when the a lack of 'innovative features' on a given service barely registers on the pain scale. Look at the internets SOPA protest, the entire integrity of the internet was threatened and we did something about it. But how can you generate enough support around: we need better mash-ups to view craigslist postings!
  - politician 14y ago
    Sometimes the companies do it to themselves: Digg succeeded in defeating the network effect. CL is certainly aware of that fiasco.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  So, what are we supposed to do? Seems like the only options are: A) destroy the network effect with legislation. (How is this good?) B) select another company The Board feels has a better platform, crush CL with legislation, and establish the new company with legislation. (How is this good!?!)
  - ericingram 14y ago
    No legislation! We aren't supposed to do anything other than decide which services to freely use and not. Our collective actions make the market dynamic, and if some company is winning and you don't like it, don't resort to violence (legislation). We need legislation to stop people from abusing legislation. Err.
  - josh33 14y ago
    Why the references to legislation? The free market can fix this IF the Craigslist experience really is bad. You might not be able to grow organically like Craigslist did but it is totally possible. Pay listers to post on your site. Offer something unique to the listers Craigslist can't.
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      Why the references to legislation? I presume that is what we are talking about, when people here complain that nobody has been able to defeat Craigslist and that Craigslist ought to die (in so many words).
  - davidw 14y ago
    The solution suggested in "Crossing the Chasm" is not a frontal assault, but to completely dominate a niche. A frontal assault is impossible, and no one ever succeeds. Microsoft did something that IBM didn't care too much about initially. Google started out doing something that was tangential for Microsoft. Facebook did not go head to head with ads and search with Google initially either.
encoderer 14y ago
It's not "their" data. It's their user's data. As a user and a homeowner I post my rental listing to Craigslist because that's where the most prospective renters are. In the past, do you think anybody ever looked at the classifieds page in a newspaper and thought "this data is owned by the Times"? In the PadMapper case, who are the losers? Renters benefit from a radically different UI and de-cluttering of daily reposts. Owners benefit from the increased traffic to their listing. Craigslist benefits because it's more of a 1-stop-shop for owners: post to craigslist (and pay them), and get some level of syndication to different services and apps. They also aren't losing out from reduced mindshare of renters: when you use PadMapper you know you're using Craigslist. It's always obvious and all links point there.
- latch 14y ago
  It might be your data, but that doesn't somehow make it Craigslist responsibility to share it with other applications. If you want your data listed in as many places as possible, register with each and every system, and enter it. In the past, do you think when you submitted a classified to 1 newspaper, they called up all the other local and regional papers to submit your information too?
  - encoderer 14y ago
    Of course not. But if another paper copies the listing that you paid them to run -- and runs it for free -- the newspaper doesn't send a C&D. Nobody is expecting craigslist to push data to 3rd parties. They expose programmatic ways to access listings, and PadMapper used them.
    - vacri 14y ago
      Why on earth would another newspaper print an ad or a classified that they're not being paid for? Also, do you have any examples of this hypothetical happening and newspaper A not having a problem with it? Outside of tabloid culture, ye olde newspapers had much more in the way of principles, and using another's content without permission was reprehensible.
mcantor 14y ago
> they have not incentive to make their data freely available How about the convenience and enjoyment of their users? I kid, I kid.

I don't think Craiglist has a "monopoly on data", they have a monopoly on their data and they have not incentive to make their data freely available.

by xelipe 14y ago

I don't think Craiglist has a "monopoly on data", they have a monopoly on their data and they have not incentive to make their data freely available.

davidw 14y ago

What Craigslist has is what economists call "positive network externalities" or network effects. Which just means that it's a really valuable service because tons of other people use it. Buyers go there because lots of people are selling, and lots of people selling go there because they know lots of buyers visit the site.

monkeymace 14y ago
This is the perennial frustration with the immense power of the network effect, a power that all start-ups live and die on. Unfortunately, us humans have a hard time banding together and forming enough consensus to 'jump ship' enmass to a new service. Especially, when the a lack of 'innovative features' on a given service barely registers on the pain scale. Look at the internets SOPA protest, the entire integrity of the internet was threatened and we did something about it. But how can you generate enough support around: we need better mash-ups to view craigslist postings!
- politician 14y ago
  Sometimes the companies do it to themselves: Digg succeeded in defeating the network effect. CL is certainly aware of that fiasco.
sliverstorm 14y ago
So, what are we supposed to do? Seems like the only options are: A) destroy the network effect with legislation. (How is this good?) B) select another company The Board feels has a better platform, crush CL with legislation, and establish the new company with legislation. (How is this good!?!)
- ericingram 14y ago
  No legislation! We aren't supposed to do anything other than decide which services to freely use and not. Our collective actions make the market dynamic, and if some company is winning and you don't like it, don't resort to violence (legislation). We need legislation to stop people from abusing legislation. Err.
- josh33 14y ago
  Why the references to legislation? The free market can fix this IF the Craigslist experience really is bad. You might not be able to grow organically like Craigslist did but it is totally possible. Pay listers to post on your site. Offer something unique to the listers Craigslist can't.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    Why the references to legislation? I presume that is what we are talking about, when people here complain that nobody has been able to defeat Craigslist and that Craigslist ought to die (in so many words).
- davidw 14y ago
  The solution suggested in "Crossing the Chasm" is not a frontal assault, but to completely dominate a niche. A frontal assault is impossible, and no one ever succeeds. Microsoft did something that IBM didn't care too much about initially. Google started out doing something that was tangential for Microsoft. Facebook did not go head to head with ads and search with Google initially either.

encoderer 14y ago

It's not "their" data. It's their user's data. As a user and a homeowner I post my rental listing to Craigslist because that's where the most prospective renters are. In the past, do you think anybody ever looked at the classifieds page in a newspaper and thought "this data is owned by the Times"? In the PadMapper case, who are the losers? Renters benefit from a radically different UI and de-cluttering of daily reposts. Owners benefit from the increased traffic to their listing. Craigslist benefits because it's more of a 1-stop-shop for owners: post to craigslist (and pay them), and get some level of syndication to different services and apps. They also aren't losing out from reduced mindshare of renters: when you use PadMapper you know you're using Craigslist. It's always obvious and all links point there.

latch 14y ago
It might be your data, but that doesn't somehow make it Craigslist responsibility to share it with other applications. If you want your data listed in as many places as possible, register with each and every system, and enter it. In the past, do you think when you submitted a classified to 1 newspaper, they called up all the other local and regional papers to submit your information too?
- encoderer 14y ago
  Of course not. But if another paper copies the listing that you paid them to run -- and runs it for free -- the newspaper doesn't send a C&D. Nobody is expecting craigslist to push data to 3rd parties. They expose programmatic ways to access listings, and PadMapper used them.
  - vacri 14y ago
    Why on earth would another newspaper print an ad or a classified that they're not being paid for? Also, do you have any examples of this hypothetical happening and newspaper A not having a problem with it? Outside of tabloid culture, ye olde newspapers had much more in the way of principles, and using another's content without permission was reprehensible.

mcantor 14y ago

> they have not incentive to make their data freely available How about the convenience and enjoyment of their users? I kid, I kid.