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It's a great site, but I don't think many of the listings could be properly categorized as old-growth. For example, I checked out a few samples: "The oldest

It's a great site, but I don't think many of the listings could be properly categorized as old-growth. For example, I checked out a few samples: "The oldest trees are estimated to be over 200 years old." https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/md-schoolhouse-woods https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/md-schoolhouse-woods "The age of the oldest trees is not certain, but 100 rings have been counted on a downed loblolly pine and a downed chestnut oak. There is no old-growth forest in this park, however, the strong protections put in place on this forest ensure that it may recover in time." https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/va-james-river-park-system https://www.oldgrowthforest.net/va-james-river-park-system (The exact definition of old-growth isn't agreed on, but I've seen some foresty documents in the PNW that demand tree age of 400+ years as a prerequisite for the old-growth categorization)

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karaterobot 2y ago
I had always thought of an old-growth forest as less defined by the age of the trees, and more by the lack of human management/disturbance. I think of old growth as being in comparison to a second-growth forest, which had been logged and replanted. I'm not a forestry scientist, just cobbling definitions together as I go. But it seems unfair to say you could never have an old growth forest of aspen—a species where individual trees only live about 100 years—if the forest itself had been untouched since the dawn of time.
- throwup238 2y ago
  It's not about the age of the individual trees but the overall forest since it was last disturbed by humans (on a large scale like logging or agriculture). Age matters because there are several "thresholds" during which the diversity of species significantly increases and that starts with the older trees falling and decomposing. The conifers in the PNW take anywhere from 50-150 years to decompose before they start breaking apart and littering the forest floor. Once the first generation of trees is broken up and spread around by the wildlife and the fungi species are fully established, the growth of third/fourth/fifth generation of trees and plants become a lot more vigorous. When the second and third generation of trees start falling, they end up creating the dense habitats that supports large food webs from the rodents on up. All the while, the tree roots pull nutrients from deeper and deeper in the earth, allowing the rain and cold to build up a layer of peat on the forest floor that cycles and stores the nutrients, improving the quality of the dirt. It just takes a while for all these processes to build up.
ethbr1 2y ago
The east and southeast don't have many ultra-long-lived tree species, outside of cypresses [0]. I think most oaks top out ~100 years and pines ~200. Not as much slow-growth, live-forever stuff. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_distichum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_distichum
- aziaziazi 2y ago
  Oaks easily go to 500y, sometimes up to 1000! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    I suppose they are the exception tho since 500 year old oaks are likely to be famous. Airlie Oak in Wilmington NC is one I know of. https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/2009/06/13/airlie-oak-has-watched-over-wilmington-for-500-years/30799693007/ https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/2009/06/13/airlie-...
    - aziaziazi 2y ago
      Right! I guess they are exceptions because we cut them before eldery, not because biological reasons. Cows older than 4yo are an exception because we slaughter most of them before but they could live 5 times more.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        Is that true? I thought super-long-lived trees tended to have special biological optimizations to persist over centuries. E.g. https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley/sec6.htm https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley/sec6.ht...
      - randomdata 2y ago
        > Cows older than 4yo are an exception because we slaughter most of them before Huh? A heifer generally won't have her first calf before two years of age. If you are only getting two productive years out of your typical cow, you're doing something horribly wrong.

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karaterobot 2y ago

I had always thought of an old-growth forest as less defined by the age of the trees, and more by the lack of human management/disturbance. I think of old growth as being in comparison to a second-growth forest, which had been logged and replanted. I'm not a forestry scientist, just cobbling definitions together as I go. But it seems unfair to say you could never have an old growth forest of aspen—a species where individual trees only live about 100 years—if the forest itself had been untouched since the dawn of time.

throwup238 2y ago
It's not about the age of the individual trees but the overall forest since it was last disturbed by humans (on a large scale like logging or agriculture). Age matters because there are several "thresholds" during which the diversity of species significantly increases and that starts with the older trees falling and decomposing. The conifers in the PNW take anywhere from 50-150 years to decompose before they start breaking apart and littering the forest floor. Once the first generation of trees is broken up and spread around by the wildlife and the fungi species are fully established, the growth of third/fourth/fifth generation of trees and plants become a lot more vigorous. When the second and third generation of trees start falling, they end up creating the dense habitats that supports large food webs from the rodents on up. All the while, the tree roots pull nutrients from deeper and deeper in the earth, allowing the rain and cold to build up a layer of peat on the forest floor that cycles and stores the nutrients, improving the quality of the dirt. It just takes a while for all these processes to build up.

ethbr1 2y ago

The east and southeast don't have many ultra-long-lived tree species, outside of cypresses [0]. I think most oaks top out ~100 years and pines ~200. Not as much slow-growth, live-forever stuff. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_distichum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_distichum

aziaziazi 2y ago
Oaks easily go to 500y, sometimes up to 1000! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  I suppose they are the exception tho since 500 year old oaks are likely to be famous. Airlie Oak in Wilmington NC is one I know of. https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/2009/06/13/airlie-oak-has-watched-over-wilmington-for-500-years/30799693007/ https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/2009/06/13/airlie-...
  - aziaziazi 2y ago
    Right! I guess they are exceptions because we cut them before eldery, not because biological reasons. Cows older than 4yo are an exception because we slaughter most of them before but they could live 5 times more.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      Is that true? I thought super-long-lived trees tended to have special biological optimizations to persist over centuries. E.g. https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley/sec6.htm https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley/sec6.ht...
    - randomdata 2y ago
      > Cows older than 4yo are an exception because we slaughter most of them before Huh? A heifer generally won't have her first calf before two years of age. If you are only getting two productive years out of your typical cow, you're doing something horribly wrong.