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Stora Enso has 20000 employees and roots in the 13th century. In the 17th centry Stora produced two thirds of all copper in the world. "The oldest preserved sh

Stora Enso has 20000 employees and roots in the 13th century. In the 17th centry Stora produced two thirds of all copper in the world. "The oldest preserved share in the Swedish copper mining company Stora Kopparberg (Falun Mine) in Falun was issued in 1288. It granted the Bishop of Västerås 1/8th (12.5%) ownership, and it is also the oldest known preserved share in any company in the world." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso

bjornsing 2y ago
From Wikipedia: “Some observers consider Stora Enso to be the oldest limited liability company in the world”. Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? 1. https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektionsmaterial/aktiebolaget-som-organisationsform-vaxer-fram/ https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektion...
- ftrobro 2y ago
  I assume the charter issued by the king in 1347 declared limitations of liability for the owners of the company.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? Legal personhood dates back to (at least) Ancient Rome: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person Medieval guilds, city charters, universities were all forms of such. Liability would be implicitly included in such structures.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  That was when Sweden got a more general law of limited liability cooperations. There existed limited liability cooperations before that but they were created on an ad hoc basis by the government.
- nucleardog 2y ago
  It was likely created by an act of government/royalty/etc. The UK law formalizing the structure of LLCs didn't really come around until the 1800s. Think of how many institutions in the UK are older than that (e.g., Bank of England is from 1694). Or for something that is a little more distinct from the government itself--Hudson's Bay Company in Canada was formed in 1670. Canada didn't exist yet and the laws weren't on the books. It was created by royal charter. It's currently owned by an American private investment firm.
  - hinkley 2y ago
    Back then if you pissed off the king he could revoke your charter. So effectively we used to have the death penalty for companies that committed treason-adjacent acts, or killed customers.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Interesting idea - although wouldn't it have been the government that could, and still can, bring down the corporate death penalty if annoyed? I think even back then the kings were losing power to the governments that ruled in their name. It's also interesting to note that some of Europe's colonizing was actually done by companies which had armies, and definitely killed at least some of their customers (whether you think the customers were the colonizers or the colonized).
permo-w 2y ago
what is the difference between the Catholic Church and a business?
- ftrobro 2y ago
  Roughly the same as the difference between a country and a business.
  - permo-w 2y ago
    not really
    - victorbjorklund 2y ago
      Why not? The Vatican is its own country (and throughout history more a "real" country with lots of ordinary people living inside its borders).
      - telotortium 2y ago
        Yes, the Papal States (the state that the Pope ruled over between ~800 and 1870) were to a large extent the successor to the Exarchate of Ravenna, the area that the Byzantine Empire reconquered in Italy from the mid-500s to the mid-700s. Ravenna had become the capital of the Western Roman Empire long before the fall of the Western Roman Empire, since it was closer to the action on the frontiers of Central and Eastern Europe.
      - permo-w 2y ago
        maybe historically, but the Vatican is barely a country. if it had any citizens beyond employees of the institution maybe it could count as a coontry
    - hinkley 2y ago
      You’re the one who picked the only church that has its own country. Don’t shoot the messenger.

bjornsing 2y ago

From Wikipedia: “Some observers consider Stora Enso to be the oldest limited liability company in the world”. Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? 1. https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektionsmaterial/aktiebolaget-som-organisationsform-vaxer-fram/ https://www.foretagskallan.se/foretagskallan-nyheter/lektion...

ftrobro 2y ago
I assume the charter issued by the king in 1347 declared limitations of liability for the owners of the company.
throw0101d 2y ago
> Interesting, especially considering that Sweden didn’t have limited liability companies until 1st of January 1849 [1]. Any ideas how this worked? Legal personhood dates back to (at least) Ancient Rome: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person Medieval guilds, city charters, universities were all forms of such. Liability would be implicitly included in such structures.
victorbjorklund 2y ago
That was when Sweden got a more general law of limited liability cooperations. There existed limited liability cooperations before that but they were created on an ad hoc basis by the government.
nucleardog 2y ago
It was likely created by an act of government/royalty/etc. The UK law formalizing the structure of LLCs didn't really come around until the 1800s. Think of how many institutions in the UK are older than that (e.g., Bank of England is from 1694). Or for something that is a little more distinct from the government itself--Hudson's Bay Company in Canada was formed in 1670. Canada didn't exist yet and the laws weren't on the books. It was created by royal charter. It's currently owned by an American private investment firm.
- hinkley 2y ago
  Back then if you pissed off the king he could revoke your charter. So effectively we used to have the death penalty for companies that committed treason-adjacent acts, or killed customers.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Interesting idea - although wouldn't it have been the government that could, and still can, bring down the corporate death penalty if annoyed? I think even back then the kings were losing power to the governments that ruled in their name. It's also interesting to note that some of Europe's colonizing was actually done by companies which had armies, and definitely killed at least some of their customers (whether you think the customers were the colonizers or the colonized).

permo-w 2y ago

what is the difference between the Catholic Church and a business?

ftrobro 2y ago
Roughly the same as the difference between a country and a business.
- permo-w 2y ago
  not really
  - victorbjorklund 2y ago
    Why not? The Vatican is its own country (and throughout history more a "real" country with lots of ordinary people living inside its borders).
    - telotortium 2y ago
      Yes, the Papal States (the state that the Pope ruled over between ~800 and 1870) were to a large extent the successor to the Exarchate of Ravenna, the area that the Byzantine Empire reconquered in Italy from the mid-500s to the mid-700s. Ravenna had become the capital of the Western Roman Empire long before the fall of the Western Roman Empire, since it was closer to the action on the frontiers of Central and Eastern Europe.
    - permo-w 2y ago
      maybe historically, but the Vatican is barely a country. if it had any citizens beyond employees of the institution maybe it could count as a coontry
  - hinkley 2y ago
    You’re the one who picked the only church that has its own country. Don’t shoot the messenger.