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I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. But consider that one way Orban makes sure to ma

I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. But consider that one way Orban makes sure to maintain this - indeed significant - majority is to try to silence/discredit voices that go against his narrative. In fact, his party is spending millions of dollars in public funds to finance a continuous stream of propaganda on many channels. On top of this, there absolutely have been a few cases where more sinister tools like surveillance etc. were employed against independent news sources for example. Their newest invention "Szuverenitásvédelmi Hivatal" (= Sovereignty Protection Bureau, idk what the official English name is) is only the latest way to at least try to scare nonprofits/NGOs/news outlets that are in some way opposed to his goals.

even_639765 2y ago
I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.
- vasco 2y ago
  I've seen a few recent videos out of the UK that made my blood boil. Police visits to your home because of mean posts, and then off to jail in handcuffs. It's absolutely ridiculous.
  - te_chris 2y ago
    Ridiculous hyperbole. Log off twitter.
    - redeeman 2y ago
      perhaps you should strongly consider whether its you who are misinformed?
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    Those “mean posts” were people organising violent riots that cost the country millions and targeted small business owners just for being ethnic minorities. People shouldn’t get a free pass on organising violence and riots just because they did it online. Edit: I don’t normally comment on the peer moderation that happens on HN but wow there are a lot of people online today that believe free speech trumps all other laws. Seems it’s ok to destroy people’s property just so long as you arrange to do it online. /s Perhaps someone can explain why they think this way?
    - roenxi 2y ago
      I'm a little hesitant to comment because I haven't been able to dig up the actual charges, but there is a history of people in the UK being charged and arrested for mean posts. A few storys jumped out at me, eg the Kelly case did seem at the time to be a betrayal of the liberal tradition assuming the BBCs reporting is accurate - realistically people should be able to gratuitously insult people who contributed of the largest imperial project in history as military officers. For all that it was in terrible taste. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60930670 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60930670
      - hnlmorg 2y ago
        It’s hard to comment on that case without knowing what was Tweeted but on the surface of it, I do agree with you. However he wasn’t sent to jail and thus it wasn’t the incident the GP described. What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. Their actions were a lot worse and had real world, tangible, effects on people and their property. It wasn’t just them sharing a meme (which is the popular trope some on HN describe the event as). It’s worth noting that people in America get arrested for similar actions. In another comment I drew parallels to the Capitol riots. The crux of the reason people get put in jail “for posting mean things” is because they’ve broken other, much worse laws in the process.
        vasco 2y ago
        > What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. My friend, I didn't refer to that at all, there's no need to lie. You were referring to those cases, not me.
        hnlmorg 2y ago
        Then perhaps you can share what other recent cases there have been of people jailed for posting stuff online. And please don’t call me a liar. You said it was recent, and they were jailed. I don’t know of anything else besides the incidents I’ve covered. Worst case is I’m misinformed. And if that’s the case then I’m sorry. But I assure you that I’m not a liar.
- cpursley 2y ago
  I still can’t get over that the UK arrests people over social media posts. Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech?
  - pelorat 2y ago
    > Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech? Yes, USA is indeed the only country on the planet with absolute free speech. Most residents of other places doesn't actually want what the USA has.
    - cpursley 2y ago
      Is that actually true or what their governments tell them that they want?
      - surgical_fire 2y ago
        That is actually true. Free speech should not be an absolute. No freedom in a society is absolute. Living in a society is a huge compromise. EDIT: I am not in favor of the Chat Control proposal by the way. It is poorly thought out and will only serve to harm innocent people. True criminals will use encryption and such anyway.
      - stavros 2y ago
        I don't want far-right neonazis freely inciting people to violence towards immigrants, no.
    - krapp 2y ago
      >Yes, USA is indeed the only country on the planet with absolute free speech. Most residents of other places doesn't actually want what the USA has. The US does not have absolute free speech. Laws exist against slander, libel, perjury and making terroristic threats. The FDA regulates the speech of food producers and pharmaceutical companies. The FCC regulates speech on broadcast television and radio. It's a felony to lie to Congress. It's a felony to call for the assassination of the President. Even speech in "public squares" is regulated by public nuisance and noise laws and curfews. Yes, what's considered "hate speech" elsewhere is (mostly) legal in the US. But that doesn't make free speech in the US absolute, just more amenable to forms of racism and bigotry the rest of the world decided weren't worth defending after the consequences of World War 2.
glenstein 2y ago
>I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. It is preposterous to concede this. Orban has destroyed the independence of media and weaponized it to support his party and spread disinformation against his opponents. He's also weaponized the tools of the state to harass the family members of his political opponents with frivolous lawsuits and exhausting legal battles.
redeeman 2y ago
so you are saying he is a standard politician, trying to discredit his opponents?

even_639765 2y ago

I think the fascism you're looking for is in the UK and France this month.

vasco 2y ago
I've seen a few recent videos out of the UK that made my blood boil. Police visits to your home because of mean posts, and then off to jail in handcuffs. It's absolutely ridiculous.
- te_chris 2y ago
  Ridiculous hyperbole. Log off twitter.
  - redeeman 2y ago
    perhaps you should strongly consider whether its you who are misinformed?
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  Those “mean posts” were people organising violent riots that cost the country millions and targeted small business owners just for being ethnic minorities. People shouldn’t get a free pass on organising violence and riots just because they did it online. Edit: I don’t normally comment on the peer moderation that happens on HN but wow there are a lot of people online today that believe free speech trumps all other laws. Seems it’s ok to destroy people’s property just so long as you arrange to do it online. /s Perhaps someone can explain why they think this way?
  - roenxi 2y ago
    I'm a little hesitant to comment because I haven't been able to dig up the actual charges, but there is a history of people in the UK being charged and arrested for mean posts. A few storys jumped out at me, eg the Kelly case did seem at the time to be a betrayal of the liberal tradition assuming the BBCs reporting is accurate - realistically people should be able to gratuitously insult people who contributed of the largest imperial project in history as military officers. For all that it was in terrible taste. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60930670 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-60930670
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      It’s hard to comment on that case without knowing what was Tweeted but on the surface of it, I do agree with you. However he wasn’t sent to jail and thus it wasn’t the incident the GP described. What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. Their actions were a lot worse and had real world, tangible, effects on people and their property. It wasn’t just them sharing a meme (which is the popular trope some on HN describe the event as). It’s worth noting that people in America get arrested for similar actions. In another comment I drew parallels to the Capitol riots. The crux of the reason people get put in jail “for posting mean things” is because they’ve broken other, much worse laws in the process.
      - vasco 2y ago
        > What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. My friend, I didn't refer to that at all, there's no need to lie. You were referring to those cases, not me.
        hnlmorg 2y ago
        Then perhaps you can share what other recent cases there have been of people jailed for posting stuff online. And please don’t call me a liar. You said it was recent, and they were jailed. I don’t know of anything else besides the incidents I’ve covered. Worst case is I’m misinformed. And if that’s the case then I’m sorry. But I assure you that I’m not a liar.
cpursley 2y ago
I still can’t get over that the UK arrests people over social media posts. Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech?
- pelorat 2y ago
  > Is the US the only place on the planet that actually has free speech? Yes, USA is indeed the only country on the planet with absolute free speech. Most residents of other places doesn't actually want what the USA has.
  - cpursley 2y ago
    Is that actually true or what their governments tell them that they want?
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      That is actually true. Free speech should not be an absolute. No freedom in a society is absolute. Living in a society is a huge compromise. EDIT: I am not in favor of the Chat Control proposal by the way. It is poorly thought out and will only serve to harm innocent people. True criminals will use encryption and such anyway.
    - stavros 2y ago
      I don't want far-right neonazis freely inciting people to violence towards immigrants, no.
  - krapp 2y ago
    >Yes, USA is indeed the only country on the planet with absolute free speech. Most residents of other places doesn't actually want what the USA has. The US does not have absolute free speech. Laws exist against slander, libel, perjury and making terroristic threats. The FDA regulates the speech of food producers and pharmaceutical companies. The FCC regulates speech on broadcast television and radio. It's a felony to lie to Congress. It's a felony to call for the assassination of the President. Even speech in "public squares" is regulated by public nuisance and noise laws and curfews. Yes, what's considered "hate speech" elsewhere is (mostly) legal in the US. But that doesn't make free speech in the US absolute, just more amenable to forms of racism and bigotry the rest of the world decided weren't worth defending after the consequences of World War 2.

glenstein 2y ago

>I'm not here to claim that Orban is anywhere near the level of a "real" dictator in terms of squashing dissent. It is preposterous to concede this. Orban has destroyed the independence of media and weaponized it to support his party and spread disinformation against his opponents. He's also weaponized the tools of the state to harass the family members of his political opponents with frivolous lawsuits and exhausting legal battles.

redeeman 2y ago

so you are saying he is a standard politician, trying to discredit his opponents?