7 ms·

I rather just buy used Lenovo Thinkcentere PCs on eBay. Way more power, cheaper and relatively small. There’s a lot of different CPU/RAM/DISK configurations you

by alxjsn 2y ago

I rather just buy used Lenovo Thinkcentere PCs on eBay. Way more power, cheaper and relatively small. There’s a lot of different CPU/RAM/DISK configurations you can find. I’ve been buying these, throwing Fedora IoT, docker, and Tailscale on them and running them from different locations for personal projects.

PedroBatista 2y ago
Sure, if you need a machine to do "normal" PC/server things, buying a computer would be the natural path.
geerlingguy 2y ago
There's also the Radxa X4 — Pi 4/5 form factor (tiny bit larger but not substantial), has a PoE HAT available, has 40-pin GPIO (with caveats, but it's basically a Pico strapped on the same board), and the N100's built-in GPU can run circles around the Pi or even RK3588 boards. The efficiency isn't there, and you'll need to figure out a better cooling/case solution than the one Radxa ships, but I'm impressed by this little board. If you can stretch your budget past $100 you can get a good brand new N100 or N305 system that will go further. Used gear is fine, but the power efficiency for anything in the $50-80 range used is pretty rough. Some people don't worry much about that, but in some parts of the world it can be $5+/month more to run older machines!
- throwup238 2y ago
  > Some people don't worry much about that, but in some parts of the world it can be $5+/month more to run older machines! California being one of the worst offenders, ironically. In SoCal my family and I pay (across several households) between $0.50/kWh and $0.99/kWh, so even a 15W idle can cost us at least $5 a month.
- wpm 2y ago
  I think your thermal pad issue was why yours ran so hot, I got one recently in the second batch and I so far haven’t been able to get it over 65C. The pad I got was about 1-1.25mm thick, not crumbly like yours was on video. I assume they figured out what the issue was with their supplier. Still think the entire thermal design is whack, a single fan perpendicular to the board on the end could draw air through the heat sink as well as over the SSD on the top. Working on whipping up some 3D printable stuff once I get some time next week.
  - geerlingguy 2y ago
    Glad they finally sorted the thermal pad at least. Everyone in the first order batch I talked to (before it was sold out a while) had the exact same thermal pad. But yes, the heatsink design still has a few drawbacks that should definitely be adjusted in a revision!
bri3d 2y ago
A few notes (as someone who is pretty staunchly anti-Pi-as-a-server, I end up having this debate often, and I do think there are reasons to do both): * A Pi will sit much lower in total power consumption than almost any used PCs if both are doing effectively nothing (ie - simple, spiky tasks like filtering DNS, serving static content from RAM, etc.). You need to be doing something with the system before a PC server comes out ahead, and most people using a Pi as a home server... aren't. Compared to a modern low-power x86 PC system, the difference isn't meaningful, but if you're buying used stuff 3 generations back, the difference becomes somewhat meaningful in terms of electric cost (on the order of tens of dollars per year, which is significant for hardware which cost tens of dollars to start with). * The Pi of course has GPIO, SPI, etc. exposed, so you can use it as a nice "hybrid-IoT" device where it's a home server _and_ a sensor aggregator, for example. And the hat ecosystem, while generally insanely overpriced, is convenient. Now, the moment you're running K8s/Docker or a real compute workload (security camera image recognition, etc.) you should probably move off of the Pi and onto something nicer, indeed. I absolutely never understood people running clusters of Pis or those goofy multi-Pi carrier boards. Just buy a real PC.
- Aachen 2y ago
  > A Pi will sit much lower in total power consumption than almost any used PC For electricity consumption, beyond the wallet, it actually seems that hardware should have a lifespan on the order of decades before electricity consumption savings offset the environmental impact: "For laptops and similar computers, manufacturing, distribution and disposal account for 52% of their Global Warming Potential (i.e. the amount of CO₂-equivalent emissions caused). For mobile phones, this is 72%. The report calculates that the lifetime of these devices should be at least 25 years to limit their Global Warming Potential." —https://wimvanderbauwhede.codeberg.page/articles/frugal-computing/ https://wimvanderbauwhede.codeberg.page/articles/frugal-comp... Rather than buying a new Pi, repurposing a 5-year-old laptop has advantages if this something one cares about. Desktops are quite a bit more hungry (I've heard this got better in recent years), but I can attest that a 2012 laptop still functions very well as a server, easily better than a 2024-era Pi. Probably I'll replace it in the next 2-4 years (so at ~15yo) when my current laptop finally will have given me enough grief (my inner grandpa complains they don't make 'em like they used to), and I'm not saying others must optimise for climate alone either, but it's something to consider when deciding on a good balance
jchw 2y ago
Emphasis on way more power. Granted, power draw isn't a huge problem for price reasons, since the cost of electricity is usually not that huge of a factor, but if you wind up running a lot of these, it can add up. More power draw is also a detriment if you want to keep things lean for longer battery, which makes me hesitant to put many older stock computers in the critical path of my network. Don't get me wrong, though. Old stock computers are excellent for a wide variety of tasks, it's just that they definitely don't encroach on a lot of the use cases of modern SBCs. You needn't buy a Raspberry Pi 5 either; plenty of use cases like Home Assistant will run pretty well on a Pi 4 or even a Pi 3, and that's not getting into the many other reasons why a Pi may be interesting (like HATs, being able to use PoE power, GPIO, or even just the I/O in general.)
autoexec 2y ago
I can't bring myself to buy Lenovo anything since they've repeatedly shipped products infested with malware, sometimes doing it in exchange for money. Once a company sinks that low and treats users with such disrespect I don't know how or why they should be trusted again.
- gosub100 2y ago
  I tried buying a used one on eBay and was disappointed to find it used a proprietary SATA power cable or connector,I can't recall. I hope they stopped doing that.
- sgt 2y ago
  The ThinkCentres kinda look like "evil" IBM corporate machines out of a Star Wars movie. I wish I could put an IBM logo on mine to complete the picture.
sgt 2y ago
I just bought one! It's brilliant, I had no idea. Cost almost nothing, and I removed the HDD and put an SSD in there, extra RAM and it's lightning quick. Right now I have Windows 10 on it as I needed to run some old proprietary software, but it's a proper gem of a machine. I got the one without touch screen.
iwontberude 2y ago
Have 13 of them and I love them
Rebelgecko 2y ago
What's the break even point for the way more power vs the cheaper upfront cost? My raspberry pi has probably saved hundreds of dollars over the years in electricity vs what I'd have spent running a cheap Intel box

by alxjsn 2y ago

PedroBatista 2y ago

Sure, if you need a machine to do "normal" PC/server things, buying a computer would be the natural path.

geerlingguy 2y ago

There's also the Radxa X4 — Pi 4/5 form factor (tiny bit larger but not substantial), has a PoE HAT available, has 40-pin GPIO (with caveats, but it's basically a Pico strapped on the same board), and the N100's built-in GPU can run circles around the Pi or even RK3588 boards. The efficiency isn't there, and you'll need to figure out a better cooling/case solution than the one Radxa ships, but I'm impressed by this little board. If you can stretch your budget past $100 you can get a good brand new N100 or N305 system that will go further. Used gear is fine, but the power efficiency for anything in the $50-80 range used is pretty rough. Some people don't worry much about that, but in some parts of the world it can be $5+/month more to run older machines!

throwup238 2y ago
> Some people don't worry much about that, but in some parts of the world it can be $5+/month more to run older machines! California being one of the worst offenders, ironically. In SoCal my family and I pay (across several households) between $0.50/kWh and $0.99/kWh, so even a 15W idle can cost us at least $5 a month.
wpm 2y ago
I think your thermal pad issue was why yours ran so hot, I got one recently in the second batch and I so far haven’t been able to get it over 65C. The pad I got was about 1-1.25mm thick, not crumbly like yours was on video. I assume they figured out what the issue was with their supplier. Still think the entire thermal design is whack, a single fan perpendicular to the board on the end could draw air through the heat sink as well as over the SSD on the top. Working on whipping up some 3D printable stuff once I get some time next week.
- geerlingguy 2y ago
  Glad they finally sorted the thermal pad at least. Everyone in the first order batch I talked to (before it was sold out a while) had the exact same thermal pad. But yes, the heatsink design still has a few drawbacks that should definitely be adjusted in a revision!

bri3d 2y ago

A few notes (as someone who is pretty staunchly anti-Pi-as-a-server, I end up having this debate often, and I do think there are reasons to do both): * A Pi will sit much lower in total power consumption than almost any used PCs if both are doing effectively nothing (ie - simple, spiky tasks like filtering DNS, serving static content from RAM, etc.). You need to be doing something with the system before a PC server comes out ahead, and most people using a Pi as a home server... aren't. Compared to a modern low-power x86 PC system, the difference isn't meaningful, but if you're buying used stuff 3 generations back, the difference becomes somewhat meaningful in terms of electric cost (on the order of tens of dollars per year, which is significant for hardware which cost tens of dollars to start with). * The Pi of course has GPIO, SPI, etc. exposed, so you can use it as a nice "hybrid-IoT" device where it's a home server _and_ a sensor aggregator, for example. And the hat ecosystem, while generally insanely overpriced, is convenient. Now, the moment you're running K8s/Docker or a real compute workload (security camera image recognition, etc.) you should probably move off of the Pi and onto something nicer, indeed. I absolutely never understood people running clusters of Pis or those goofy multi-Pi carrier boards. Just buy a real PC.

Aachen 2y ago
> A Pi will sit much lower in total power consumption than almost any used PC For electricity consumption, beyond the wallet, it actually seems that hardware should have a lifespan on the order of decades before electricity consumption savings offset the environmental impact: "For laptops and similar computers, manufacturing, distribution and disposal account for 52% of their Global Warming Potential (i.e. the amount of CO₂-equivalent emissions caused). For mobile phones, this is 72%. The report calculates that the lifetime of these devices should be at least 25 years to limit their Global Warming Potential." —https://wimvanderbauwhede.codeberg.page/articles/frugal-computing/ https://wimvanderbauwhede.codeberg.page/articles/frugal-comp... Rather than buying a new Pi, repurposing a 5-year-old laptop has advantages if this something one cares about. Desktops are quite a bit more hungry (I've heard this got better in recent years), but I can attest that a 2012 laptop still functions very well as a server, easily better than a 2024-era Pi. Probably I'll replace it in the next 2-4 years (so at ~15yo) when my current laptop finally will have given me enough grief (my inner grandpa complains they don't make 'em like they used to), and I'm not saying others must optimise for climate alone either, but it's something to consider when deciding on a good balance

jchw 2y ago

Emphasis on way more power. Granted, power draw isn't a huge problem for price reasons, since the cost of electricity is usually not that huge of a factor, but if you wind up running a lot of these, it can add up. More power draw is also a detriment if you want to keep things lean for longer battery, which makes me hesitant to put many older stock computers in the critical path of my network. Don't get me wrong, though. Old stock computers are excellent for a wide variety of tasks, it's just that they definitely don't encroach on a lot of the use cases of modern SBCs. You needn't buy a Raspberry Pi 5 either; plenty of use cases like Home Assistant will run pretty well on a Pi 4 or even a Pi 3, and that's not getting into the many other reasons why a Pi may be interesting (like HATs, being able to use PoE power, GPIO, or even just the I/O in general.)

autoexec 2y ago

I can't bring myself to buy Lenovo anything since they've repeatedly shipped products infested with malware, sometimes doing it in exchange for money. Once a company sinks that low and treats users with such disrespect I don't know how or why they should be trusted again.

gosub100 2y ago
I tried buying a used one on eBay and was disappointed to find it used a proprietary SATA power cable or connector,I can't recall. I hope they stopped doing that.
sgt 2y ago
The ThinkCentres kinda look like "evil" IBM corporate machines out of a Star Wars movie. I wish I could put an IBM logo on mine to complete the picture.

sgt 2y ago

I just bought one! It's brilliant, I had no idea. Cost almost nothing, and I removed the HDD and put an SSD in there, extra RAM and it's lightning quick. Right now I have Windows 10 on it as I needed to run some old proprietary software, but it's a proper gem of a machine. I got the one without touch screen.

iwontberude 2y ago

Have 13 of them and I love them

Rebelgecko 2y ago

What's the break even point for the way more power vs the cheaper upfront cost? My raspberry pi has probably saved hundreds of dollars over the years in electricity vs what I'd have spent running a cheap Intel box