6 ms·

I'm offering you a different viewpoint: They made the analysis, how long the flash will live and saw, that it will make it out of the warranty period. Thus the

I'm offering you a different viewpoint: They made the analysis, how long the flash will live and saw, that it will make it out of the warranty period. Thus they did not opt for more durable and expensive flash and/or software change. I've seen this myself before. One process step before release of the control module was a write cycle analysis to make sure the unit will live for at least 10 years (i think) before the guaranteed write cycles of the flash memory were consumed.

yuye 2y ago
>Thus they did not opt for more durable and expensive flash and/or software change. Opting out of a more durable solution when you know the device will break right after warranty is still planned obsolescence.
muppetman 2y ago
Isn't that kinda the definition of planned obselence? You plan so that past you point you have to care, it could well die/become useless?
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Planned obsolescence is when you purposefully design it to fail as soon as possible (but past any warranty period), to force repeat purchase.
audunw 2y ago
You're both missing one of the more likely explanation.. that nobody gave much thought about how long the device would last. "It's solid state electronics, it'll probably outlast the warranty anyway".. I can imagine an aircon company puts a lot of effort into analyzing the air-conditioning unit itself to make sure it lasts at least as long as the warranty, with good margin. But I can totally see them winging it on an external control device, which was perhaps even a project they outsourced anyway. I don't think actual malicious planned obsolescence is as prevalent as many believe. A device breaking right after warranty is not a good strategy to get repeat customers. It's also a huge risk if you miscalculated and you suddenly get a lot of warranty cases. You want a lot of margin there. I've been involved in the design of a thing myself, where something the manufacturer hadn't clearly communicated - and we just barely caught - could have made the device die just around a typical warranty period for such a device. When we found out, of course we worked on this problem to make sure it didn't die prematurely.
- yuye 2y ago
  Advantage Air doesn't produce ACs. They produce smart home solutions, including AC controllers. They're not winging it on an external control device, they're cheaping out on their main product. Also, their claim is that they're not outsourcing. If you check their website, it claims everything is designed and manufactured in Australia. Nevertheless, I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt if it were not for: 1. The only option being a full system replacement. 2. Communication protocol being encrypted. 3. App being locked down to certain hard-coded models. None of these give me any hope that this is a well-meaning company that just has some issues. Also, I think a company that sells a product most customers would only buy once or twice in their lives is not a company that expects many repeat customers.
  - michaelt 2y ago
    > Also, their claim is that they're not outsourcing. If you check their website, it claims everything is designed and manufactured in Australia. Looking at pictures like [1] and [2] I suppose it's possible they're making their own generic android tablet control panel, designed and manufactured in Australia and they just happened to add a camera, side-mounted USB charging connector, a headphone socket, microsd card slot, and a battery charge level indicator, loads of space for a battery that isn't present, a connector named VBAT and also a chinese-language bootloader but accidentally forgot to include the power and data connector they need, poking out the back of the device so they had someone bodge it on afterwards by hand with a soldering iron but IMHO it's more likely they mean "manufactured in Australia from components sourced internationally" and one of those components is a generic android tablet. [1] https://www.myplacenz.co.nz/are-you-making-the-most-of-your-myplace-touchscreen/ https://www.myplacenz.co.nz/are-you-making-the-most-of-your-... [2] https://blog.hopefullyuseful.com/blog/advantage-air-ezone-tablet-diy-repair/insidetablet.jpeg https://blog.hopefullyuseful.com/blog/advantage-air-ezone-ta...
    - yuye 2y ago
      Should've added a bit more snark to that line to properly communicate that I absolutely don't believe their claims that everything is designed/made in Australia. It's very obvious they just went for the cheapest bottom-of-the-barrel tablet Alibaba has to offer on one of their main products. I wouldn't trust this company to do anything competently.
WhyNotHugo 2y ago
In other words, _Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity._ This device should not need to write to storage. It has to save settings when the user manually changes them, which can't be more than a few kilobytes per year. Any other writes are likely an oversight on the developer's part.

yuye 2y ago

>Thus they did not opt for more durable and expensive flash and/or software change. Opting out of a more durable solution when you know the device will break right after warranty is still planned obsolescence.

muppetman 2y ago

Isn't that kinda the definition of planned obselence? You plan so that past you point you have to care, it could well die/become useless?

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Planned obsolescence is when you purposefully design it to fail as soon as possible (but past any warranty period), to force repeat purchase.

audunw 2y ago

You're both missing one of the more likely explanation.. that nobody gave much thought about how long the device would last. "It's solid state electronics, it'll probably outlast the warranty anyway".. I can imagine an aircon company puts a lot of effort into analyzing the air-conditioning unit itself to make sure it lasts at least as long as the warranty, with good margin. But I can totally see them winging it on an external control device, which was perhaps even a project they outsourced anyway. I don't think actual malicious planned obsolescence is as prevalent as many believe. A device breaking right after warranty is not a good strategy to get repeat customers. It's also a huge risk if you miscalculated and you suddenly get a lot of warranty cases. You want a lot of margin there. I've been involved in the design of a thing myself, where something the manufacturer hadn't clearly communicated - and we just barely caught - could have made the device die just around a typical warranty period for such a device. When we found out, of course we worked on this problem to make sure it didn't die prematurely.

yuye 2y ago
Advantage Air doesn't produce ACs. They produce smart home solutions, including AC controllers. They're not winging it on an external control device, they're cheaping out on their main product. Also, their claim is that they're not outsourcing. If you check their website, it claims everything is designed and manufactured in Australia. Nevertheless, I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt if it were not for: 1. The only option being a full system replacement. 2. Communication protocol being encrypted. 3. App being locked down to certain hard-coded models. None of these give me any hope that this is a well-meaning company that just has some issues. Also, I think a company that sells a product most customers would only buy once or twice in their lives is not a company that expects many repeat customers.
- michaelt 2y ago
  > Also, their claim is that they're not outsourcing. If you check their website, it claims everything is designed and manufactured in Australia. Looking at pictures like [1] and [2] I suppose it's possible they're making their own generic android tablet control panel, designed and manufactured in Australia and they just happened to add a camera, side-mounted USB charging connector, a headphone socket, microsd card slot, and a battery charge level indicator, loads of space for a battery that isn't present, a connector named VBAT and also a chinese-language bootloader but accidentally forgot to include the power and data connector they need, poking out the back of the device so they had someone bodge it on afterwards by hand with a soldering iron but IMHO it's more likely they mean "manufactured in Australia from components sourced internationally" and one of those components is a generic android tablet. [1] https://www.myplacenz.co.nz/are-you-making-the-most-of-your-myplace-touchscreen/ https://www.myplacenz.co.nz/are-you-making-the-most-of-your-... [2] https://blog.hopefullyuseful.com/blog/advantage-air-ezone-tablet-diy-repair/insidetablet.jpeg https://blog.hopefullyuseful.com/blog/advantage-air-ezone-ta...
  - yuye 2y ago
    Should've added a bit more snark to that line to properly communicate that I absolutely don't believe their claims that everything is designed/made in Australia. It's very obvious they just went for the cheapest bottom-of-the-barrel tablet Alibaba has to offer on one of their main products. I wouldn't trust this company to do anything competently.

WhyNotHugo 2y ago

In other words, _Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity._ This device should not need to write to storage. It has to save settings when the user manually changes them, which can't be more than a few kilobytes per year. Any other writes are likely an oversight on the developer's part.