6 ms·

Mail out ballots then require an ID when you turn it in. Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. It seems pretty simple to me. Not sure why anyone woul

Mail out ballots then require an ID when you turn it in. Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. It seems pretty simple to me. Not sure why anyone would be against this.

jeffbee 2y ago
We're against it because allowing ten thousand unelected petty bureaucrats to adjudicate whether a voter is or is not allowed to cast their ballot on election day isn't a good system.
- weaksauce 2y ago
  to anyone wondering what this looks like in practice... google "hanging chad"
sandworm101 2y ago
> Not sure why anyone would be against this. Because of all the edge cases. Some people do not have ID. Some have ID but it doesn't match their current address. Some people have ID but the same name+address as a dead person (not uncommon when people inherit houses from dead parents). Most people would be fine with ID requirements if they could trust that these edge cases will not be leveraged by some local volunteer with an agenda. In the never-ending 50-50 split of US politics, edge cases are too often the decider. See Florida 2000, where those who couldn't properly punch a hole in a piece of paper ended up deciding the presidency.
philipov 2y ago
> Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. ... Not sure why anyone would be against this. Because the same people trying to make IDs required also want them to be harder to get, not easier.
- mminer237 2y ago
  I have never heard of anyone pushing to make IDs harder to get.
  - alphabettsy 2y ago
    Not specifically trying to make it easier, but passing legislation without or in spite of the impact. If they want to require voter ID then getting ID should not be a bureaucratic nightmare and it should be able to be done for free. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/chal... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a...
- willcipriano 2y ago
  Due to previous rulings on poll taxes, any place where ID is required to vote, ID is also required to be obtainable for free. The people repeating this myth are smart enough to know better so one must assume they intend to have people who can't obtain ID via legal means, voting.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
    Citation needed, and also this argument is not really made in good faith. I live in Texas. These are the requirements to obtain an ID: https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/how-apply-texas-identification-card https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/how-apply-t... As you can see there is a fee associated with it. Technically you do not have to present ID in Texas[1], but the requirements to not present an ID are so onerous you would easily be able to afford an ID before you could meet them. Because not only do you have to provide one of these documents, you also have to prove you cannot reasonably obtain an id... But the requirements are such that if you have the ability to provide one of these documents, you almost certainly have the ability to obtain an id. So the state will say "Well, you're able to obtain this document, why can't you get an ID?" and invalidate your vote. So the de-facto result is that you need an ID. And this argument handwaves away, as the above links demonstrate, the significant amount of hurdles required to get an ID in Texas, which is not only paying a fee. 1: https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      I'm sorry but if you can't afford $30 every 8 years there is something very wrong with you. I would not be opposed to a poverty exemption for the fee, but the fee is so low that nobody realistically needs it. I don't know of a state with no fees for documents like ID. There are identication requirements to get an ID, but that goes for any state. You have to have that to prevent identity theft. If you move to a new state you can usually turn in your old ID with like one other thing to get a new one in that state.
      - notnaut 2y ago
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Issuing ID is a fixable problem and you can fight about ID issuance without upsetting anyone. It's not acceptable to respond to perceived inefficiency in ID issuance by letting people vote without ID. Realistically, it is impossible to live a normal life without ID as it is. The only people I expect to have trouble getting ID are the very elderly and disabled who have no transportation at all. That too can be fixed.
  - philipov 2y ago
    Fix issuance first, then we can talk about making it a requirement. What isn't acceptable is to deny even a single person their right to vote because they couldn't get a valid ID.
    - anonymous14382 2y ago
      >Fix issuance first, then we can talk about making it a requirement. What isn't acceptable is to deny even a single person their right to vote because they couldn't get a valid ID. Here's a list of things that require government ID right now, off the top of my head: * Getting a job * Accepting free food from a food drive * Getting a bank account or loan * Buying alcohol or cigarettes * Buying a gun * Getting a tattoo * Picking up a package * Driving a car * Buying a plane or train ticket * Viewing an apartment or house to lease/buy * Forwarding your mail or setting up a PO box * Joining a gym * Setting up your gas/electricity/cable/internet * Getting a phone with service * Entering a nightclub I'm all about giving people their rights, but making ID a requirement needs to be done. If the feds want to push it, then they can insist on criteria for acceptable issuance of ID. But I don't agree with waiting to do this anywhere it is possible to do it sooner. No other country (that I know of) is stupid enough to allow voting without ID. Perhaps the irrationality of this policy is an indictment of our government's dysfunction.
wakawaka28 2y ago
>Mail out ballots then require an ID when you turn it in. Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. It seems pretty simple to me. Not sure why anyone would be against this. There needs to be accountability when it comes to voting. Mail is not acceptable for voting, especially if you make it as inconvenient as voting in person. What I would like is to make voting day a holiday. Then we can put all these absurd arguments about how people can't get to the polls with valid ID to rest. Let the people who must work on election day vote early. Vote on paper, none of this unaccountable and glitchy electronic garbage. We have more tech than ever and our elections take longer to count than those in countries that use paper.

Mail out ballots then require an ID when you turn it in. Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. It seems pretty simple to me. Not sure why anyone would be against this.

jeffbee 2y ago

We're against it because allowing ten thousand unelected petty bureaucrats to adjudicate whether a voter is or is not allowed to cast their ballot on election day isn't a good system.

weaksauce 2y ago
to anyone wondering what this looks like in practice... google "hanging chad"

sandworm101 2y ago

> Not sure why anyone would be against this. Because of all the edge cases. Some people do not have ID. Some have ID but it doesn't match their current address. Some people have ID but the same name+address as a dead person (not uncommon when people inherit houses from dead parents). Most people would be fine with ID requirements if they could trust that these edge cases will not be leveraged by some local volunteer with an agenda. In the never-ending 50-50 split of US politics, edge cases are too often the decider. See Florida 2000, where those who couldn't properly punch a hole in a piece of paper ended up deciding the presidency.

philipov 2y ago

> Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. ... Not sure why anyone would be against this. Because the same people trying to make IDs required also want them to be harder to get, not easier.

mminer237 2y ago
I have never heard of anyone pushing to make IDs harder to get.
- alphabettsy 2y ago
  Not specifically trying to make it easier, but passing legislation without or in spite of the impact. If they want to require voter ID then getting ID should not be a bureaucratic nightmare and it should be able to be done for free. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/chal... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a...
willcipriano 2y ago
Due to previous rulings on poll taxes, any place where ID is required to vote, ID is also required to be obtainable for free. The people repeating this myth are smart enough to know better so one must assume they intend to have people who can't obtain ID via legal means, voting.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  Citation needed, and also this argument is not really made in good faith. I live in Texas. These are the requirements to obtain an ID: https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/how-apply-texas-identification-card https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/how-apply-t... As you can see there is a fee associated with it. Technically you do not have to present ID in Texas[1], but the requirements to not present an ID are so onerous you would easily be able to afford an ID before you could meet them. Because not only do you have to provide one of these documents, you also have to prove you cannot reasonably obtain an id... But the requirements are such that if you have the ability to provide one of these documents, you almost certainly have the ability to obtain an id. So the state will say "Well, you're able to obtain this document, why can't you get an ID?" and invalidate your vote. So the de-facto result is that you need an ID. And this argument handwaves away, as the above links demonstrate, the significant amount of hurdles required to get an ID in Texas, which is not only paying a fee. 1: https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm https://www.votetexas.gov/mobile/id-faqs.htm
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    I'm sorry but if you can't afford $30 every 8 years there is something very wrong with you. I would not be opposed to a poverty exemption for the fee, but the fee is so low that nobody realistically needs it. I don't know of a state with no fees for documents like ID. There are identication requirements to get an ID, but that goes for any state. You have to have that to prevent identity theft. If you move to a new state you can usually turn in your old ID with like one other thing to get a new one in that state.
    - notnaut 2y ago
wakawaka28 2y ago
Issuing ID is a fixable problem and you can fight about ID issuance without upsetting anyone. It's not acceptable to respond to perceived inefficiency in ID issuance by letting people vote without ID. Realistically, it is impossible to live a normal life without ID as it is. The only people I expect to have trouble getting ID are the very elderly and disabled who have no transportation at all. That too can be fixed.
- philipov 2y ago
  Fix issuance first, then we can talk about making it a requirement. What isn't acceptable is to deny even a single person their right to vote because they couldn't get a valid ID.
  - anonymous14382 2y ago
    >Fix issuance first, then we can talk about making it a requirement. What isn't acceptable is to deny even a single person their right to vote because they couldn't get a valid ID. Here's a list of things that require government ID right now, off the top of my head: * Getting a job * Accepting free food from a food drive * Getting a bank account or loan * Buying alcohol or cigarettes * Buying a gun * Getting a tattoo * Picking up a package * Driving a car * Buying a plane or train ticket * Viewing an apartment or house to lease/buy * Forwarding your mail or setting up a PO box * Joining a gym * Setting up your gas/electricity/cable/internet * Getting a phone with service * Entering a nightclub I'm all about giving people their rights, but making ID a requirement needs to be done. If the feds want to push it, then they can insist on criteria for acceptable issuance of ID. But I don't agree with waiting to do this anywhere it is possible to do it sooner. No other country (that I know of) is stupid enough to allow voting without ID. Perhaps the irrationality of this policy is an indictment of our government's dysfunction.

wakawaka28 2y ago

>Mail out ballots then require an ID when you turn it in. Make it easier to get an ID if that's a problem. It seems pretty simple to me. Not sure why anyone would be against this. There needs to be accountability when it comes to voting. Mail is not acceptable for voting, especially if you make it as inconvenient as voting in person. What I would like is to make voting day a holiday. Then we can put all these absurd arguments about how people can't get to the polls with valid ID to rest. Let the people who must work on election day vote early. Vote on paper, none of this unaccountable and glitchy electronic garbage. We have more tech than ever and our elections take longer to count than those in countries that use paper.