13 ms·

I so badly wish they'd open-source Windows. It wasn't bad enough that they refuse to fix obviously bad code, but they also don't allow the very many talented pe

I so badly wish they'd open-source Windows. It wasn't bad enough that they refuse to fix obviously bad code, but they also don't allow the very many talented performance engineers submit PRs that would do in a month what they couldn't get done in years.

Idesmi 2y ago
Don't submit to the whims of a private company. Use Free Software.
- ghssds 2y ago
  And host them on Github /s
  - chris_wot 2y ago
    Not sure I see the issue.
    - greenchair 2y ago
      owned by MS
      - chris_wot 2y ago
        Still don’t see the issue.
  - legends2k 2y ago
    Nah.. many have started moving out to SourceHut, Gitlab, self-host, etc. I did see the /s but just saying.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
  I only use it for games and maybe with valve's work that won't be needed sooner either.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    Depending on the kinds of games you play, Linux + Proton can provide an excellent gaming experience now, often times better than on Windows, with fewer stutters. Some multiplayer games with kernel rootkit/anticheat might not work, but I haven't encountered any Linux-specific issues in the games I play. I'm sure this isn't the experience for everyone but it's worth a try.
ksec 2y ago
I actually think this could happen one day under Nadella. May be not whole OS but part of Windows.
- skissane 2y ago
  Some parts have already been open-sourced. For example, the console host component has been open sourced here: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal https://github.com/microsoft/terminal And the FAT filesystem driver: https://github.com/microsoft/Windows-driver-samples/tree/main/filesys/fastfat https://github.com/microsoft/Windows-driver-samples/tree/mai... And also PowerShell: https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell And most of .NET: https://github.com/dotnet https://github.com/dotnet Maybe they could consider an Apple-style approach: open source the core of the kernel and text-mode user space but leave the GUI closed. Of course, open sourcing everything would be even better, but that might too big of a step for them. Open sourcing the non-GUI core could be a good initial step, whether or not it ends up going further.
  - smegger001 2y ago
    my guess is if they did it it would be under some odd ball license just to make sure its code couldn't be incorporated into other penguin themed operating systems
  - userbinator 2y ago
    File Manager: https://github.com/microsoft/winfile https://github.com/microsoft/winfile Calculator (the horrible UWP one, unfortunately): https://github.com/microsoft/calculator https://github.com/microsoft/calculator As for that FAT driver, it was traditional to include in the SDK/DDK sources of some of the actual drivers in Windows, so that one is not a surprise.
  - ksec 2y ago
    >Open sourcing the non-GUI core could be a good initial step, I think that is what could happen in 10-20 year period. As long as they could drive enough revenue from Cloud. At least M$ under Nadella so far has a much better strategic play than most other tech CEO.
userbinator 2y ago
The source for several older versions was... forced open a few years ago. If you're willing to ignore Imaginary Property laws, there are some very interesting chimeric OSes out there on the shadier parts of the Internet.
- supriyo-biswas 2y ago
  The only ones that I've found are Windows "mods" that use a combination of NTLite[1] for feature removal and slipstreaming and some edits to icon resources in system32.dll etc. Did you have something else in mind? Email is in my profile in case you have a link that you can share. [1] https://www.ntlite.com https://www.ntlite.com
  - userbinator 2y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24640878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24640878 has yielded some interesting underground developments, not surprisingly mainly in CIS countries and the Orient.
- aap_ 2y ago
  Thanks for "Imaginary Property". I will use this from now on.
supriyo-biswas 2y ago
That's just wishful thinking, but I wish there was a way to license the NT kernel and other core OS components. That way, other companies could work to add usable and performant userspace components to their version of Windows, with users finally being relieved of dealing with the batshit crazy UI and other warts Microsoft keeps on adding.
tlhunter 2y ago
What drives me nuts is that even though Windows is the only os I have paid for it's also the only os I use which doesn't include full disk encryption (unless I pay even more). Linux is free and comes with it. Macos is freeish and comes with it. Windows home costs over $100 and doesn't. Those built in ads are also ironic.
- davkan 2y ago
  Grey market pro keys are like $5 on ebay. I have zero qualms buying them when such a basic and critical form of security is absent from the base edition. It’s malpractice.
- rty32 2y ago
  Windows Home has full disk encryption and it will be on by default in Windows 11. They just don't call it BitLocker. https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220138/microsoft-bitlocker-device-encryption-windows-11-default https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220138/microsoft-bitloc...
  - hulitu 2y ago
    And the keys are owned by Microsoft. /s
lelanthran 2y ago
> I so badly wish they'd open-source Windows. It wasn't bad enough that they refuse to fix obviously bad code, but they also don't allow the very many talented performance engineers submit PRs that would do in a month what they couldn't get done in years. Being open-source wouldn't fix things like that. It'll be just like Gnome: PRs that fix UI gaffes wouldn't be accepted because "The Developers Know Better!"
- OsrsNeedsf2P 2y ago
  Except Gnome does accept PRs that fix UI gaffes (as long as it fits their design spec) and has also been forked (Cinnamon and MATE)
  - rty32 2y ago
    Interesting. They actually have formal design specs all written down?
    - legends2k 2y ago
      Of course [1]! How would they give consistent, cleanly designed UI. I find the UX/UI much more cohesive than Windows' where some apps look like flat boxes (metro UI), others look like classic Windows. You thought open-source means there'd be no design and they'd only jam code, while designing and architecturing is only for proprietary projects within ivy towered castles? [1]: https://developer.gnome.org/hig/ https://developer.gnome.org/hig/
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    Writing something down in a design spec doesn't mean it isn't a UX gaffe. The hamburger menu is the most obvious example.
chris_wot 2y ago
Invest in ReactOS.

Idesmi 2y ago

Don't submit to the whims of a private company. Use Free Software.

ghssds 2y ago
And host them on Github /s
- chris_wot 2y ago
  Not sure I see the issue.
  - greenchair 2y ago
    owned by MS
    - chris_wot 2y ago
      Still don’t see the issue.
- legends2k 2y ago
  Nah.. many have started moving out to SourceHut, Gitlab, self-host, etc. I did see the /s but just saying.
ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
I only use it for games and maybe with valve's work that won't be needed sooner either.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dns_snek 2y ago
  Depending on the kinds of games you play, Linux + Proton can provide an excellent gaming experience now, often times better than on Windows, with fewer stutters. Some multiplayer games with kernel rootkit/anticheat might not work, but I haven't encountered any Linux-specific issues in the games I play. I'm sure this isn't the experience for everyone but it's worth a try.

ksec 2y ago

I actually think this could happen one day under Nadella. May be not whole OS but part of Windows.

skissane 2y ago
Some parts have already been open-sourced. For example, the console host component has been open sourced here: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal https://github.com/microsoft/terminal And the FAT filesystem driver: https://github.com/microsoft/Windows-driver-samples/tree/main/filesys/fastfat https://github.com/microsoft/Windows-driver-samples/tree/mai... And also PowerShell: https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell And most of .NET: https://github.com/dotnet https://github.com/dotnet Maybe they could consider an Apple-style approach: open source the core of the kernel and text-mode user space but leave the GUI closed. Of course, open sourcing everything would be even better, but that might too big of a step for them. Open sourcing the non-GUI core could be a good initial step, whether or not it ends up going further.
- smegger001 2y ago
  my guess is if they did it it would be under some odd ball license just to make sure its code couldn't be incorporated into other penguin themed operating systems
- userbinator 2y ago
  File Manager: https://github.com/microsoft/winfile https://github.com/microsoft/winfile Calculator (the horrible UWP one, unfortunately): https://github.com/microsoft/calculator https://github.com/microsoft/calculator As for that FAT driver, it was traditional to include in the SDK/DDK sources of some of the actual drivers in Windows, so that one is not a surprise.
- ksec 2y ago
  >Open sourcing the non-GUI core could be a good initial step, I think that is what could happen in 10-20 year period. As long as they could drive enough revenue from Cloud. At least M$ under Nadella so far has a much better strategic play than most other tech CEO.

userbinator 2y ago

The source for several older versions was... forced open a few years ago. If you're willing to ignore Imaginary Property laws, there are some very interesting chimeric OSes out there on the shadier parts of the Internet.

supriyo-biswas 2y ago
The only ones that I've found are Windows "mods" that use a combination of NTLite[1] for feature removal and slipstreaming and some edits to icon resources in system32.dll etc. Did you have something else in mind? Email is in my profile in case you have a link that you can share. [1] https://www.ntlite.com https://www.ntlite.com
- userbinator 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24640878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24640878 has yielded some interesting underground developments, not surprisingly mainly in CIS countries and the Orient.
aap_ 2y ago
Thanks for "Imaginary Property". I will use this from now on.

supriyo-biswas 2y ago

That's just wishful thinking, but I wish there was a way to license the NT kernel and other core OS components. That way, other companies could work to add usable and performant userspace components to their version of Windows, with users finally being relieved of dealing with the batshit crazy UI and other warts Microsoft keeps on adding.

tlhunter 2y ago

What drives me nuts is that even though Windows is the only os I have paid for it's also the only os I use which doesn't include full disk encryption (unless I pay even more). Linux is free and comes with it. Macos is freeish and comes with it. Windows home costs over $100 and doesn't. Those built in ads are also ironic.

davkan 2y ago
Grey market pro keys are like $5 on ebay. I have zero qualms buying them when such a basic and critical form of security is absent from the base edition. It’s malpractice.
rty32 2y ago
Windows Home has full disk encryption and it will be on by default in Windows 11. They just don't call it BitLocker. https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220138/microsoft-bitlocker-device-encryption-windows-11-default https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220138/microsoft-bitloc...
- hulitu 2y ago
  And the keys are owned by Microsoft. /s

lelanthran 2y ago

> I so badly wish they'd open-source Windows. It wasn't bad enough that they refuse to fix obviously bad code, but they also don't allow the very many talented performance engineers submit PRs that would do in a month what they couldn't get done in years. Being open-source wouldn't fix things like that. It'll be just like Gnome: PRs that fix UI gaffes wouldn't be accepted because "The Developers Know Better!"

OsrsNeedsf2P 2y ago
Except Gnome does accept PRs that fix UI gaffes (as long as it fits their design spec) and has also been forked (Cinnamon and MATE)
- rty32 2y ago
  Interesting. They actually have formal design specs all written down?
  - legends2k 2y ago
    Of course [1]! How would they give consistent, cleanly designed UI. I find the UX/UI much more cohesive than Windows' where some apps look like flat boxes (metro UI), others look like classic Windows. You thought open-source means there'd be no design and they'd only jam code, while designing and architecturing is only for proprietary projects within ivy towered castles? [1]: https://developer.gnome.org/hig/ https://developer.gnome.org/hig/
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Writing something down in a design spec doesn't mean it isn't a UX gaffe. The hamburger menu is the most obvious example.

chris_wot 2y ago

Invest in ReactOS.