5 ms·

Serious question: if it’s so important to you why use an iPhone? Not trying to be sarcastic or negative, really just curious.

nottorp 2y ago
Because the only competition is Android. Apple is the least bad choice if we're talking quality of the user experience. Don't bother comparing specs on paper, use both. And that's even before we take into account that Android is run by an advertising company. Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed and they ended up getting EU users a bit more freedom to decide what's run on the hardware they paid for...
- fsflover 2y ago
  > Because the only competition is Android. It's not. Sent from my Librem 5.
  - npteljes 2y ago
    This isn't a good faith argument. When considering competition for X, the alternative should do at least most of the things that X does. It's not realistic to expect a drop-in alternative, but the user, I think, can't be expected to turn their life around, just to use the alternative, either. If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone. If the offerings differ too much, then they are not competition. They are different products.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      They also missed the "quality of user experience" argument.
    - cesarb 2y ago
      > If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone. Can that SIM-enabled Windows notebook do phone calls using the cell operator network (that is, not over the Internet)? If not (that is, if it uses the SIM only for data), then it's not an iPhone competitor. The "smartphone" category (which is where all iPhone competitors reside) requires being both "smart" (that is, with PDA functionality) and being a "phone"; the Librem 5 (and, for instance, the Nokia N900) fits comfortably in that category.
      - pgalvin 2y ago
        Nowadays, and especially for those under about 30, phone calls come near-last on the list of things smartphones are used for. To change to the Librem 5, I would need to: - change the way I communicate with all of my friends and family by using SMS over the _only_ method used in much of the world - WhatsApp. - be excluded from context surrounding many social gatherings due to not being in group chats. - change the way I travel with very, very different navigation apps that lack turn-by-turn directions. - stop using social media when on the go - mobile websites often lack many features, if they even exist. - accept significantly reduced quality photographs of memories, especially in low light. - meticulously acquire local files for tens of thousands of songs I have organised in Spotify playlists for over a decade, and totally change the way I discover new music. - lose Shazam and apps like it, so I’ll forever be wondering “what was that song I liked…?” - entirely change from the mobile-only bank that I use (and, even then, suffer the atrocious UX of most online banking). - change from the convenience of Apple/Google/etc. photos to setting up Syncthing, my own NAS, and making sure it keeps running and never goes wrong. - become stranded when public transport stops running at night, as I can’t get an Uber, or try to get a normal taxi at 3am. I’m not even sure they exist where I am. - carry a wallet, or at the very least my cards, with me for the first time in 9 years. Unfortunately, the duopoly is well-entrenched, especially for those born after 1995 or so and outside the US (SMS is very, very rarely used in much of the rest of the world). You could tell people that there are plenty of workarounds - I listed many above - and some sacrifices to use a Linux phone, they should try it! But then they would ask “why?” and you’d be hard-pressed to give any reason they care about.
        bornfreddy 2y ago
        Well said! However, people are different. None of the things you mention matter to me, so I could be using Librem 5 if it wasn't for: - ability to run apps from a (well stocked) store
        fsflover 2y ago
        > - ability to run apps from a (well stocked) store You can run Android apps via Waydroid. F-Droid, for example, works fine for me.
  - katzinsky 2y ago
    I like Linux phones but it's hard to justify spending $700 on any portable computer, especially one with only 3gb of ram. I think for most people there really isn't any competition, especially with the lock in from icloud. It was painful for me when I switched to a pinephone (I just use cheogram on a laptop with a 4g modem now, I don't think most people will do that) and I'm generally very careful about using online services like that. Most people just switching between Android and iOS will turn their whole lives upside down.
  - viherjuuri 2y ago
    I looked into what this is, and I don’t think I could use my mobile banking apps, my payment cards or software required for work on this. Otherwise I like the idea and I hope it will mature and become a real option one day.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      For some banks, Waydroid allows to run the banking app. If your bank forces you into the duopoly without giving a choice, you should complain or switch.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  > Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed I think it's amusing, it's extremely rare for incentives of a big corporation to align with ours to the point where they'd go to war against giants like Apple. Epic is equally bad in other areas but I'm glad they fought for this.
withinboredom 2y ago
It's a fair question and boils down to a few things. We switched from Android in 2016 for good reasons, but now it would be too costly to switch back.
eklavya 2y ago
I used to not understand this as well. Then I switched to Android after some 8 years and can't really remember why I "needed" iOS. Everything works and I am happy. really just choose the better product (for you). Regulation may not happen in time or at all but declining sales will make any business do an about turn at record pace. And even if it doesn't, why do I care?
- nottorp 2y ago
  You change your phone every year? Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1]. Meanwhile, my iPhone XS is over 5 years old and almost as responsive as on day one. And I have major version OS updates to blame for the "almost", while the Android one got one major update and was lagfest even before that. [1] I don't even use it every day, Android development is kind of a side job once in a while.
  - cesarb 2y ago
    > You change your phone every year? Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1]. As a counter anecdotal evidence: I bought my current Android phone before the pandemic started (that is, more than 4 years ago), use it daily, and it's as responsive now as it was when I first used it. While I don't have any iPhone experience to compare, I feel no lag when using it.
    - chgs 2y ago
      This is the problem many have with android - there’s a massive difference between different handsets That isn’t the case with an iPhone
      - nottorp 2y ago
        I seriously don't understand why performance should degrade so much in time. Do they use crap flash chips in the cheaper models and Android writes so much to them that they run out of scratch space or something?
RandomThoughts3 2y ago
Performances are better? They like the UI? They really wanted a smartwatch and Apple makes the nicest? Their family uses iMessage? They have a Mac and enjoy the integration? There are plenty of reasons to have an iPhone even if you deeply dislike the lack of sideloading and the AppStore.
madeofpalk 2y ago
It’s possible to prefer a product as a sum of all its parts, but have some downsides or criticisms of it. Personally, I dislike the Android look and feel more than I want the ability to install other app marketplaces.
sph 2y ago
I'd rather suffer the Apple nanny state than the Google spyware empire. And the Google Material UI is eye-bleedingly terrible in its absolute blandness. I just wish there was a serious third option.

nottorp 2y ago

Because the only competition is Android. Apple is the least bad choice if we're talking quality of the user experience. Don't bother comparing specs on paper, use both. And that's even before we take into account that Android is run by an advertising company. Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed and they ended up getting EU users a bit more freedom to decide what's run on the hardware they paid for...

fsflover 2y ago
> Because the only competition is Android. It's not. Sent from my Librem 5.
- npteljes 2y ago
  This isn't a good faith argument. When considering competition for X, the alternative should do at least most of the things that X does. It's not realistic to expect a drop-in alternative, but the user, I think, can't be expected to turn their life around, just to use the alternative, either. If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone. If the offerings differ too much, then they are not competition. They are different products.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    They also missed the "quality of user experience" argument.
  - cesarb 2y ago
    > If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone. Can that SIM-enabled Windows notebook do phone calls using the cell operator network (that is, not over the Internet)? If not (that is, if it uses the SIM only for data), then it's not an iPhone competitor. The "smartphone" category (which is where all iPhone competitors reside) requires being both "smart" (that is, with PDA functionality) and being a "phone"; the Librem 5 (and, for instance, the Nokia N900) fits comfortably in that category.
    - pgalvin 2y ago
      Nowadays, and especially for those under about 30, phone calls come near-last on the list of things smartphones are used for. To change to the Librem 5, I would need to: - change the way I communicate with all of my friends and family by using SMS over the _only_ method used in much of the world - WhatsApp. - be excluded from context surrounding many social gatherings due to not being in group chats. - change the way I travel with very, very different navigation apps that lack turn-by-turn directions. - stop using social media when on the go - mobile websites often lack many features, if they even exist. - accept significantly reduced quality photographs of memories, especially in low light. - meticulously acquire local files for tens of thousands of songs I have organised in Spotify playlists for over a decade, and totally change the way I discover new music. - lose Shazam and apps like it, so I’ll forever be wondering “what was that song I liked…?” - entirely change from the mobile-only bank that I use (and, even then, suffer the atrocious UX of most online banking). - change from the convenience of Apple/Google/etc. photos to setting up Syncthing, my own NAS, and making sure it keeps running and never goes wrong. - become stranded when public transport stops running at night, as I can’t get an Uber, or try to get a normal taxi at 3am. I’m not even sure they exist where I am. - carry a wallet, or at the very least my cards, with me for the first time in 9 years. Unfortunately, the duopoly is well-entrenched, especially for those born after 1995 or so and outside the US (SMS is very, very rarely used in much of the rest of the world). You could tell people that there are plenty of workarounds - I listed many above - and some sacrifices to use a Linux phone, they should try it! But then they would ask “why?” and you’d be hard-pressed to give any reason they care about.
      - bornfreddy 2y ago
        Well said! However, people are different. None of the things you mention matter to me, so I could be using Librem 5 if it wasn't for: - ability to run apps from a (well stocked) store
        fsflover 2y ago
        > - ability to run apps from a (well stocked) store You can run Android apps via Waydroid. F-Droid, for example, works fine for me.
- katzinsky 2y ago
  I like Linux phones but it's hard to justify spending $700 on any portable computer, especially one with only 3gb of ram. I think for most people there really isn't any competition, especially with the lock in from icloud. It was painful for me when I switched to a pinephone (I just use cheogram on a laptop with a 4g modem now, I don't think most people will do that) and I'm generally very careful about using online services like that. Most people just switching between Android and iOS will turn their whole lives upside down.
- viherjuuri 2y ago
  I looked into what this is, and I don’t think I could use my mobile banking apps, my payment cards or software required for work on this. Otherwise I like the idea and I hope it will mature and become a real option one day.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    For some banks, Waydroid allows to run the banking app. If your bank forces you into the duopoly without giving a choice, you should complain or switch.
dns_snek 2y ago
> Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed I think it's amusing, it's extremely rare for incentives of a big corporation to align with ours to the point where they'd go to war against giants like Apple. Epic is equally bad in other areas but I'm glad they fought for this.

withinboredom 2y ago

It's a fair question and boils down to a few things. We switched from Android in 2016 for good reasons, but now it would be too costly to switch back.

eklavya 2y ago

I used to not understand this as well. Then I switched to Android after some 8 years and can't really remember why I "needed" iOS. Everything works and I am happy. really just choose the better product (for you). Regulation may not happen in time or at all but declining sales will make any business do an about turn at record pace. And even if it doesn't, why do I care?

nottorp 2y ago
You change your phone every year? Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1]. Meanwhile, my iPhone XS is over 5 years old and almost as responsive as on day one. And I have major version OS updates to blame for the "almost", while the Android one got one major update and was lagfest even before that. [1] I don't even use it every day, Android development is kind of a side job once in a while.
- cesarb 2y ago
  > You change your phone every year? Because I have this Android phone sitting on my desk for development. When I bought it it was almost as responsive as iPhones (and much cheaper). 4 years later the UI is a lagfest [1]. As a counter anecdotal evidence: I bought my current Android phone before the pandemic started (that is, more than 4 years ago), use it daily, and it's as responsive now as it was when I first used it. While I don't have any iPhone experience to compare, I feel no lag when using it.
  - chgs 2y ago
    This is the problem many have with android - there’s a massive difference between different handsets That isn’t the case with an iPhone
    - nottorp 2y ago
      I seriously don't understand why performance should degrade so much in time. Do they use crap flash chips in the cheaper models and Android writes so much to them that they run out of scratch space or something?

RandomThoughts3 2y ago

Performances are better? They like the UI? They really wanted a smartwatch and Apple makes the nicest? Their family uses iMessage? They have a Mac and enjoy the integration? There are plenty of reasons to have an iPhone even if you deeply dislike the lack of sideloading and the AppStore.

madeofpalk 2y ago

It’s possible to prefer a product as a sum of all its parts, but have some downsides or criticisms of it. Personally, I dislike the Android look and feel more than I want the ability to install other app marketplaces.

sph 2y ago

I'd rather suffer the Apple nanny state than the Google spyware empire. And the Google Material UI is eye-bleedingly terrible in its absolute blandness. I just wish there was a serious third option.