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This is the most shocking part to me: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon […] disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of ha

by _han 2y ago

This is the most shocking part to me: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon […] disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store. Absolutely astounding that removing transactions from the platform could result in being removed.

sschueller 2y ago
How is the EU going to respond to this since it is literally blackmail with Apple's market dominance?
- nabla9 2y ago
  When they respond Apple changes policy for EU users, not for anyone else. Already users based in the European Union with an iPhone have the ability to install apps using alternative app marketplaces or web distribution, in addition to the App Store.
  - jdiez17 2y ago
    Is that so? I’ve been waiting to try app sideloading but haven’t seen any app repositories or so that work with the app marketplace APIs
    - nabla9 2y ago
      Yes. It has been just few months. It takes some time to catch up. Mobivention (b2b specialized) https://app-marketplace.eu/ https://app-marketplace.eu/ AltStore https://altstore.io/#Downloads https://altstore.io/#Downloads Sometime in the future, Epic Games Store, MacPaw’s Setapp
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ryan29 2y ago
I wonder how far those rules from Apple go. I don't know a ton about Patreon, but what if creators have exclusive content available via the app and use that to encourage fans to subscribe outside of iOS? What if creators start an education campaign on YouTube telling their fans to avoid subscriptions on iOS? I wonder if Apple is playing with fire on this one. If the creator and influencer markets turn on them, I think it could have a non-trivial impact on Apple's brand, especially with younger generations. Many modern creators are also smart business people and they're not going to see much value in Apple taking 30% of their revenue when Patreon is already providing all the services they need for about 15% at the top end IIRC. Right now I think the biggest change that could help the average consumer would be for legislators to allow, or maybe even require, app owners to split platform fees into separate line items. For example, something like: Donation $1.00 Patreon Platform Fee $1.18 Apple Platform Fee $0.50 ---------------------------- Total $1.68
sunaookami 2y ago
WordPress had the same problem: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-says-wordpress-doesnt-have-to-add-in-app-purchases/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-says-wordpress-doesnt... They had to remove payments completely so that it's a "free standalone app".
jzl 2y ago
I strongly suspect Patreon is playing fast and loose with the wording here. Note they say “if creators on Patreon disable transactions…” but not “if Patreon were to disable all transactions.” I’m pretty sure they could still go the Audible route where they remove all mention and links to billing options off app. But Patreon doesn’t want to go that route across the board, they still want people to be able to sign up for things in app.
bsza 2y ago
Easy to fix, give creators an option to make all tiers cost one quadrillion USD on the iOS app (or whatever the upper limit is for in-app purchases). Technically they are complying with Apple's demands while also allowing creators to give Apple the finger.

by _han 2y ago

sschueller 2y ago

How is the EU going to respond to this since it is literally blackmail with Apple's market dominance?

nabla9 2y ago
When they respond Apple changes policy for EU users, not for anyone else. Already users based in the European Union with an iPhone have the ability to install apps using alternative app marketplaces or web distribution, in addition to the App Store.
- jdiez17 2y ago
  Is that so? I’ve been waiting to try app sideloading but haven’t seen any app repositories or so that work with the app marketplace APIs
  - nabla9 2y ago
    Yes. It has been just few months. It takes some time to catch up. Mobivention (b2b specialized) https://app-marketplace.eu/ https://app-marketplace.eu/ AltStore https://altstore.io/#Downloads https://altstore.io/#Downloads Sometime in the future, Epic Games Store, MacPaw’s Setapp
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ryan29 2y ago

I wonder how far those rules from Apple go. I don't know a ton about Patreon, but what if creators have exclusive content available via the app and use that to encourage fans to subscribe outside of iOS? What if creators start an education campaign on YouTube telling their fans to avoid subscriptions on iOS? I wonder if Apple is playing with fire on this one. If the creator and influencer markets turn on them, I think it could have a non-trivial impact on Apple's brand, especially with younger generations. Many modern creators are also smart business people and they're not going to see much value in Apple taking 30% of their revenue when Patreon is already providing all the services they need for about 15% at the top end IIRC. Right now I think the biggest change that could help the average consumer would be for legislators to allow, or maybe even require, app owners to split platform fees into separate line items. For example, something like: Donation $1.00 Patreon Platform Fee $1.18 Apple Platform Fee $0.50 ---------------------------- Total $1.68

sunaookami 2y ago

WordPress had the same problem: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-says-wordpress-doesnt-have-to-add-in-app-purchases/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-says-wordpress-doesnt... They had to remove payments completely so that it's a "free standalone app".

jzl 2y ago

I strongly suspect Patreon is playing fast and loose with the wording here. Note they say “if creators on Patreon disable transactions…” but not “if Patreon were to disable all transactions.” I’m pretty sure they could still go the Audible route where they remove all mention and links to billing options off app. But Patreon doesn’t want to go that route across the board, they still want people to be able to sign up for things in app.

bsza 2y ago

Easy to fix, give creators an option to make all tiers cost one quadrillion USD on the iOS app (or whatever the upper limit is for in-app purchases). Technically they are complying with Apple's demands while also allowing creators to give Apple the finger.