7 ms·

It doesn't do everything for you. You still need to update applications that use deprecated APIs. This sort of "just" thinking is a great way for teams to drow

by ttymck 2y ago

It doesn't do everything for you. You still need to update applications that use deprecated APIs. This sort of "just" thinking is a great way for teams to drown in ops toil.

metaltyphoon 2y ago
Are you assuming the workloads have to use K8s APIs? Where is this coming from? If that’s not the case can you actually explain with a concrete example?
- ttymck 2y ago
  Any cluster extension. Helm is a good example. https://helm.sh/docs/topics/version_skew/ https://helm.sh/docs/topics/version_skew/ Istio: https://istio.io/latest/docs/releases/supported-releases/#support-status-of-istio-releases https://istio.io/latest/docs/releases/supported-releases/#su... Literally every kubernetes manifest that hits the server uses a k8s api: apiVersion: apps/v1
  - epgui 2y ago
    You mean operators? (genuine tone, not rhetorical)
    - ttymck 2y ago
      Sure, an operator is likely to use a wide array of APIs. But, to reiterate, everything uses APIs. The *betavX APIs are of course likely to be deprecated and replaced with stable APIs after a few versions.
  - Too 2y ago
    Man, you don't need to use service mesh just because you use k8s. Istio is a very advanced component that 99% of users don't need. So if you are going to compare with a managed solution, compare with something equivalent. Take a bare managed cluster and add a single Deployment to it, it will be no more complex than ECS, while giving you much better developer ergonomics.
    - ttymck 2y ago
      99% of users don't need kubernetes. Just deploy to heroku, and you'll have a much better developer experience.
      - 5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV 2y ago
        My wallet says otherwise
Ramiro 2y ago
I agree with @metaltyphoon on this. Even for small teams, a managed version of Kubernetes takes away most of the pain. I've used both ECS+Fargate and Kubernetes, but these days, I prefer Kubernetes mainly because the ecosystem is way bigger, both vendor and open source. Most of the problems we run into are always one search or open source project away.
epgui 2y ago
My experience with k8s has been very much “just”, and I’ve never really had issues or experienced any real friction with updates. shrugs
- ttymck 2y ago
  That's great. I guess I've somehow been making things harder than they need to be.
  - butshouldyou 2y ago
    Looks like you were using k8s APIs directly in your applications, which is a more complex set-up. In my experience, most k8s deployments are just "dumb" docker images, they're not very "k8s native". Your use case may be more complex, which is why you have had more difficulty keeping things up-to-date.

by ttymck 2y ago

It doesn't do everything for you. You still need to update applications that use deprecated APIs. This sort of "just" thinking is a great way for teams to drown in ops toil.

metaltyphoon 2y ago

Are you assuming the workloads have to use K8s APIs? Where is this coming from? If that’s not the case can you actually explain with a concrete example?

ttymck 2y ago
Any cluster extension. Helm is a good example. https://helm.sh/docs/topics/version_skew/ https://helm.sh/docs/topics/version_skew/ Istio: https://istio.io/latest/docs/releases/supported-releases/#support-status-of-istio-releases https://istio.io/latest/docs/releases/supported-releases/#su... Literally every kubernetes manifest that hits the server uses a k8s api: apiVersion: apps/v1
- epgui 2y ago
  You mean operators? (genuine tone, not rhetorical)
  - ttymck 2y ago
    Sure, an operator is likely to use a wide array of APIs. But, to reiterate, everything uses APIs. The *betavX APIs are of course likely to be deprecated and replaced with stable APIs after a few versions.
- Too 2y ago
  Man, you don't need to use service mesh just because you use k8s. Istio is a very advanced component that 99% of users don't need. So if you are going to compare with a managed solution, compare with something equivalent. Take a bare managed cluster and add a single Deployment to it, it will be no more complex than ECS, while giving you much better developer ergonomics.
  - ttymck 2y ago
    99% of users don't need kubernetes. Just deploy to heroku, and you'll have a much better developer experience.
    - 5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV 2y ago
      My wallet says otherwise

Ramiro 2y ago

I agree with @metaltyphoon on this. Even for small teams, a managed version of Kubernetes takes away most of the pain. I've used both ECS+Fargate and Kubernetes, but these days, I prefer Kubernetes mainly because the ecosystem is way bigger, both vendor and open source. Most of the problems we run into are always one search or open source project away.

epgui 2y ago

My experience with k8s has been very much “just”, and I’ve never really had issues or experienced any real friction with updates. shrugs

ttymck 2y ago
That's great. I guess I've somehow been making things harder than they need to be.
- butshouldyou 2y ago
  Looks like you were using k8s APIs directly in your applications, which is a more complex set-up. In my experience, most k8s deployments are just "dumb" docker images, they're not very "k8s native". Your use case may be more complex, which is why you have had more difficulty keeping things up-to-date.