7 ms·

It’s interesting that Matt Levine capitalises “white”, as well as capitalising “black”. I haven’t seen this style choice before.

by 0898 2y ago

playingalong 2y ago
Is it his style or Bloomberg's?
ceejayoz 2y ago
There's some debate over this. https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-ethnicity-us-news-ap-top-news-7e36c00c5af0436abc09e051261fff1f https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-e... > In some ways, the decision over “white” has been more ticklish. The National Association of Black Journalists and some Black scholars have said white should be capitalized, too. > CNN, Fox News and The San Diego Union-Tribune said they will give white the uppercase, noting it was consistent with Black, Asian, Latino and other ethnic groups. Fox cited NABJ’s advice. > CBS News said it would capitalize white, although not when referring to white supremacists, white nationalists or white privilege.
- falcor84 2y ago
  > CBS News said it would capitalize white, although not when referring to white supremacists, white nationalists or white privilege. Oh, interesting - so would I be correct in saying that "white supremacists" are people thinking that White people are superior to others, whereas a "White supremacist" is a White person who is a supremacist of some group, e.g. "A White male supremacist"?
  - OJFord 2y ago
    Probably more likely to be a typo (as in off-style guide) than a deliberate distinction!
- klik99 2y ago
  Assuming this is about ethnic groups in the context of America, saying "White" doesn't have a "shared culture and history in the way Black does" is arguably true, but "Asian" and "Latino" also both don't have a shared culture and history in the way "Black" does. Also "White" is the only ethnic group name that doesn't refer to a place, even though it's clearly a stand-in for "European", which kind of implies everyone else came from somewhere else.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    Black is not just the shared culture of African Americans but also includes Africans who immigrated after the slavery era, Afro-Latinos, and Afro-Caribbean people, which have significantly less overlap. It is why African-American has dropped out of usage as the general term.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > "White" doesn't have a "shared culture and history in the way Black does" is arguably true I don't think this is even right. For example, many Australian aborigines or natives of the Caribbean are "black" but are only from Africa in the sense that all humans are including Europeans. Likewise, a recent immigrant from Zimbabwe will have a very different "culture and history" than a fifth generation resident of Brooklyn, even if they have similar genetics and skin color. For that matter, at this point a resident of New York and a resident of Mississippi will have about as much in common as someone from France and someone from Poland, regardless of the color of their skin. It also seems like quite a presumption to even suggest the contrary. Are we really safe to claim that people from Ghana and people from Ethiopia have a uniform culture just because they're both on the same continent and we aren't that familiar with either of them? > Also "White" is the only ethnic group name that doesn't refer to a place, even though it's clearly a stand-in for "European" How is this standing in any different than "Latino" implying Central and South America or "Black" implying Africa? It seems like the best solution is to just not capitalize any of them. Or, for that matter, to stop trying to categorize people in this way, since the entire premise was established by foolish racists and doesn't deserve the dignity of continued deference.
    - 2y ago
- OJFord 2y ago
  What's the reason for capitalising either of them introducing any debate in the first place? I doubt this will pass the test of time, makes it seem like a noun ('a White'; it must be a noun to be a proper noun after all) rather than an adjective ('a black person') which (capitalisation aside) is way out of favour. (At least it is/would be in the UK, where 'PoC' isn't really used either, so ymmv.)
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Agree. If you're hung up on whether your adjectives are capitalized, you don't have much to worry about.
- mjevans 2y ago
  I think it would make more sense in a hyperlinked / popup definition field / WikiLike proper noun (a page is a full thing). E.G. White Privilege helps to denote that this is a title for something, and might link to an outside definition, footnote that describes the term (in case someone somehow doesn't know it yet) etc.
- throwaway_30724 2y ago
  I can't wait until we just get to be American. Tired of questions asking "what I am", both from people and on forms. I'm American, not Asian, not Latinx. I have so far traced 3 great-grandparents lines back to England and 1 from an eastern European country that no longer exist (so how am I suppose to classify myself with that?). 2 left for Virginia in the 1600's the other 2 left for the US in the early 1800's. I'm an 11th generation American, yet I don't have that option on forms and people still ask me where I am from - no, I mean before that, what country are your(my) parents from? confusion Also, I don't speak Spanish, so am not Hispanic (why is this even grouped with things like Asian, Black, White? and why are Asian's Asian but the other two get colors?)
akira2501 2y ago
> It’s interesting that Matt Levine capitalises “white”, as well as capitalising “black”. In this context, they're both proper nouns and this is the correct stylization, what's interesting about it? > I haven’t seen this style choice before. Do people imagine that they're going to have an impact on any social outcome by merely changing capitalization of certain words? It's incomprehensible that this would be a "style choice" and not simply "moral navel gazing."
- booleandilemma 2y ago
  I visited a website once that only capitalized "black" and not "white". It was a website geared towards black entrepreneurs iirc but I forget the name. It came across as creepy to me.
  - mynameishere 2y ago
    Umm, almost every media outlet does that. By the way, this whole thing is like the "He" in the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverential_capitalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverential_capitalization
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    I remember somebody at TheRoot saying they didn’t want to capitalize either one because if they capitalized one they’d have to capitalize the other and capitalizing White meant centering white privilege. Really I think it becomes clear when you know that Custer capitalized mule but not Indian.
- karaterobot 2y ago
  Neither are proper nouns as I understand the term. They're not names for anything, they're just adjectives or broad categories at most. Treating them like proper nouns makes them sound like baseball team names.

It’s interesting that Matt Levine capitalises “white”, as well as capitalising “black”. I haven’t seen this style choice before.

by 0898 2y ago

It’s interesting that Matt Levine capitalises “white”, as well as capitalising “black”. I haven’t seen this style choice before.

playingalong 2y ago

Is it his style or Bloomberg's?

ceejayoz 2y ago

There's some debate over this. https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-ethnicity-us-news-ap-top-news-7e36c00c5af0436abc09e051261fff1f https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-e... > In some ways, the decision over “white” has been more ticklish. The National Association of Black Journalists and some Black scholars have said white should be capitalized, too. > CNN, Fox News and The San Diego Union-Tribune said they will give white the uppercase, noting it was consistent with Black, Asian, Latino and other ethnic groups. Fox cited NABJ’s advice. > CBS News said it would capitalize white, although not when referring to white supremacists, white nationalists or white privilege.

falcor84 2y ago
> CBS News said it would capitalize white, although not when referring to white supremacists, white nationalists or white privilege. Oh, interesting - so would I be correct in saying that "white supremacists" are people thinking that White people are superior to others, whereas a "White supremacist" is a White person who is a supremacist of some group, e.g. "A White male supremacist"?
- OJFord 2y ago
  Probably more likely to be a typo (as in off-style guide) than a deliberate distinction!
klik99 2y ago
Assuming this is about ethnic groups in the context of America, saying "White" doesn't have a "shared culture and history in the way Black does" is arguably true, but "Asian" and "Latino" also both don't have a shared culture and history in the way "Black" does. Also "White" is the only ethnic group name that doesn't refer to a place, even though it's clearly a stand-in for "European", which kind of implies everyone else came from somewhere else.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  Black is not just the shared culture of African Americans but also includes Africans who immigrated after the slavery era, Afro-Latinos, and Afro-Caribbean people, which have significantly less overlap. It is why African-American has dropped out of usage as the general term.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > "White" doesn't have a "shared culture and history in the way Black does" is arguably true I don't think this is even right. For example, many Australian aborigines or natives of the Caribbean are "black" but are only from Africa in the sense that all humans are including Europeans. Likewise, a recent immigrant from Zimbabwe will have a very different "culture and history" than a fifth generation resident of Brooklyn, even if they have similar genetics and skin color. For that matter, at this point a resident of New York and a resident of Mississippi will have about as much in common as someone from France and someone from Poland, regardless of the color of their skin. It also seems like quite a presumption to even suggest the contrary. Are we really safe to claim that people from Ghana and people from Ethiopia have a uniform culture just because they're both on the same continent and we aren't that familiar with either of them? > Also "White" is the only ethnic group name that doesn't refer to a place, even though it's clearly a stand-in for "European" How is this standing in any different than "Latino" implying Central and South America or "Black" implying Africa? It seems like the best solution is to just not capitalize any of them. Or, for that matter, to stop trying to categorize people in this way, since the entire premise was established by foolish racists and doesn't deserve the dignity of continued deference.
  - 2y ago
OJFord 2y ago
What's the reason for capitalising either of them introducing any debate in the first place? I doubt this will pass the test of time, makes it seem like a noun ('a White'; it must be a noun to be a proper noun after all) rather than an adjective ('a black person') which (capitalisation aside) is way out of favour. (At least it is/would be in the UK, where 'PoC' isn't really used either, so ymmv.)
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Agree. If you're hung up on whether your adjectives are capitalized, you don't have much to worry about.
mjevans 2y ago
I think it would make more sense in a hyperlinked / popup definition field / WikiLike proper noun (a page is a full thing). E.G. White Privilege helps to denote that this is a title for something, and might link to an outside definition, footnote that describes the term (in case someone somehow doesn't know it yet) etc.
throwaway_30724 2y ago
I can't wait until we just get to be American. Tired of questions asking "what I am", both from people and on forms. I'm American, not Asian, not Latinx. I have so far traced 3 great-grandparents lines back to England and 1 from an eastern European country that no longer exist (so how am I suppose to classify myself with that?). 2 left for Virginia in the 1600's the other 2 left for the US in the early 1800's. I'm an 11th generation American, yet I don't have that option on forms and people still ask me where I am from - no, I mean before that, what country are your(my) parents from? confusion Also, I don't speak Spanish, so am not Hispanic (why is this even grouped with things like Asian, Black, White? and why are Asian's Asian but the other two get colors?)

akira2501 2y ago

> It’s interesting that Matt Levine capitalises “white”, as well as capitalising “black”. In this context, they're both proper nouns and this is the correct stylization, what's interesting about it? > I haven’t seen this style choice before. Do people imagine that they're going to have an impact on any social outcome by merely changing capitalization of certain words? It's incomprehensible that this would be a "style choice" and not simply "moral navel gazing."

booleandilemma 2y ago
I visited a website once that only capitalized "black" and not "white". It was a website geared towards black entrepreneurs iirc but I forget the name. It came across as creepy to me.
- mynameishere 2y ago
  Umm, almost every media outlet does that. By the way, this whole thing is like the "He" in the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverential_capitalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverential_capitalization
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  I remember somebody at TheRoot saying they didn’t want to capitalize either one because if they capitalized one they’d have to capitalize the other and capitalizing White meant centering white privilege. Really I think it becomes clear when you know that Custer capitalized mule but not Indian.
karaterobot 2y ago
Neither are proper nouns as I understand the term. They're not names for anything, they're just adjectives or broad categories at most. Treating them like proper nouns makes them sound like baseball team names.