6 ms·

Vim commands are like a language - you don't route learn combinations, only the individual "words", and you string them together dynamically, like you would do

by f0r 14y ago

Vim commands are like a language - you don't route learn combinations, only the individual "words", and you string them together dynamically, like you would do with English words in a sentence.

kamaal 14y ago
What are the list of those individual "words". And what is the syntax for combining them?
- damncabbage 14y ago
  This is the best explanation I've found so far: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/3528 http://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/3528
  - kamaal 14y ago
    It was a very good read. But not what I was expecting. If vim is indeed speaking a language this is what I would expect a vim tutorial to have. 1. Basic commands. 2. Syntax to chain basic commands. 3. Ability to form other commands from basic commands. 4. Way to write macros. Instead most vim tutorials I have read present with a list of several commands to memorize and then a cheat sheet to navigate you through a jungle. Often they are letters, and not meaningful words. So they are difficult to put into ones brain. Couple that with vim's modes. And you are set with a perfect recipe for disaster in case of a new bie. If vim is indeed speaking a language than manuals and tutorials teaching it, must explain how to speak that language. This is 2012 and the need to memorize commands, and read cheat sheets to edit text doesn't belong to our times. What I seem to get is vim aims to provide sed, grep, tr, cut etc kind of tools inside a text editor in form of some interplay of letters and words. How I haven't figured out till today's date. Every time I've tried to learn vim, I've quit trying to memorize 'yy P...' kind of commands. That happens as I first can't memorize random arrangement of characters. Secondly if its not random, I've not understood how to arrange and use those letters to make meaningful commands.
    - alinajaf 14y ago
      Based on this comment I think it's possible that vim isn't for you and you would probably be better suited to something like Sublime or TextMate.
      - kamaal 14y ago
        Why would that be, vim seems to be difficult to use because a good manual that actually teaches how to use vim isn't available yet. In fact it was surprising to me when I learned vim commands are actually a form of some terse language. Because I was only of an assumption that most vim commands are random string of characters you need to memorize. And when you memorize and practice enough you become productive. I would be definitely well suited for vim, because I like terse language paradigms in unix like sed, awk, perl. I think if I had known about these aspects of vim a while back. I would have tried to write a few essays myself to understand using vim effectively. I feel tempted to give vim a try now.
        irahul 14y ago
        > Why would that be, vim seems to be difficult to use because a good manual that actually teaches how to use vim isn't available yet. What manuals have you tried? Have you tried `vimtutor`(if vim is installed, just run vimtutor from the sell). > In fact it was surprising to me when I learned vim commands are actually a form of some terse language. Because I was only of an assumption that most vim commands are random string of characters you need to memorize. And when you memorize and practice enough you become productive. You need to know a lot of words before you can form intelligible sentences. There is no not-knowing `h,j,k,l,esc,d,x,p,b,w,i,I...`. So yes, you do need to memorize basic operations before you can chain them. Most of the things in this cheatsheet are important to know http://tnerual.eriogerg.free.fr/vimqrc.pdf http://tnerual.eriogerg.free.fr/vimqrc.pdf And once you have learnt the basic, there is no manual to tell you how to combine them, because there is no syntax to do it - you just run them in sequence. It has already been pointed out in the SO thread, and various other threads here. > I feel tempted to give vim a try now. Your temptation will last all of 1 day. If you give up, vim isn't for you. It takes a minimum of 15 days to a month to s top missing whatever editor you are using right now, then another month to actually start liking it.

by f0r 14y ago

Vim commands are like a language - you don't route learn combinations, only the individual "words", and you string them together dynamically, like you would do with English words in a sentence.

kamaal 14y ago

What are the list of those individual "words". And what is the syntax for combining them?

damncabbage 14y ago
This is the best explanation I've found so far: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/3528 http://stackoverflow.com/a/1220118/3528
- kamaal 14y ago
  It was a very good read. But not what I was expecting. If vim is indeed speaking a language this is what I would expect a vim tutorial to have. 1. Basic commands. 2. Syntax to chain basic commands. 3. Ability to form other commands from basic commands. 4. Way to write macros. Instead most vim tutorials I have read present with a list of several commands to memorize and then a cheat sheet to navigate you through a jungle. Often they are letters, and not meaningful words. So they are difficult to put into ones brain. Couple that with vim's modes. And you are set with a perfect recipe for disaster in case of a new bie. If vim is indeed speaking a language than manuals and tutorials teaching it, must explain how to speak that language. This is 2012 and the need to memorize commands, and read cheat sheets to edit text doesn't belong to our times. What I seem to get is vim aims to provide sed, grep, tr, cut etc kind of tools inside a text editor in form of some interplay of letters and words. How I haven't figured out till today's date. Every time I've tried to learn vim, I've quit trying to memorize 'yy P...' kind of commands. That happens as I first can't memorize random arrangement of characters. Secondly if its not random, I've not understood how to arrange and use those letters to make meaningful commands.
  - alinajaf 14y ago
    Based on this comment I think it's possible that vim isn't for you and you would probably be better suited to something like Sublime or TextMate.
    - kamaal 14y ago
      Why would that be, vim seems to be difficult to use because a good manual that actually teaches how to use vim isn't available yet. In fact it was surprising to me when I learned vim commands are actually a form of some terse language. Because I was only of an assumption that most vim commands are random string of characters you need to memorize. And when you memorize and practice enough you become productive. I would be definitely well suited for vim, because I like terse language paradigms in unix like sed, awk, perl. I think if I had known about these aspects of vim a while back. I would have tried to write a few essays myself to understand using vim effectively. I feel tempted to give vim a try now.
      - irahul 14y ago
        > Why would that be, vim seems to be difficult to use because a good manual that actually teaches how to use vim isn't available yet. What manuals have you tried? Have you tried `vimtutor`(if vim is installed, just run vimtutor from the sell). > In fact it was surprising to me when I learned vim commands are actually a form of some terse language. Because I was only of an assumption that most vim commands are random string of characters you need to memorize. And when you memorize and practice enough you become productive. You need to know a lot of words before you can form intelligible sentences. There is no not-knowing `h,j,k,l,esc,d,x,p,b,w,i,I...`. So yes, you do need to memorize basic operations before you can chain them. Most of the things in this cheatsheet are important to know http://tnerual.eriogerg.free.fr/vimqrc.pdf http://tnerual.eriogerg.free.fr/vimqrc.pdf And once you have learnt the basic, there is no manual to tell you how to combine them, because there is no syntax to do it - you just run them in sequence. It has already been pointed out in the SO thread, and various other threads here. > I feel tempted to give vim a try now. Your temptation will last all of 1 day. If you give up, vim isn't for you. It takes a minimum of 15 days to a month to s top missing whatever editor you are using right now, then another month to actually start liking it.