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The concern about the impact of internet and social media (and consequently smartphones) on children’s safety is well-founded. Increased anxiety and depression,

The concern about the impact of internet and social media (and consequently smartphones) on children’s safety is well-founded. Increased anxiety and depression, reduced attention span, sleep disruption...

gtirloni 2y ago
I don't remember feeling depressed about my Internet usage before social networks existed. Just making a point to try and separate those two, as impossible as it seems these days.
- technothrasher 2y ago
  When did you start using the Internet? I was already using social networks (Multi-user BBS's and FidoNet) before I even first got onto the Internet in 1988, and then immediately got on to Usenet and IRC for social networking.
  - dghughes 2y ago
    Yeah late 80s early 90s BBS (terrible name of BATE) was the first thing I ever did on a computer other than my Atary 600XL. Talk to actual people!? Wow! Then onto IRC where "no flaming" (arguing or trolling) was a strict rule. But 90% of it was people wanting to hookup people asking ASL was every second sentence. But whatever modern social media is there is something different about it.
    - technothrasher 2y ago
      I think the biggest differences with modern social media are that 1) it constantly seeks your attention with notifications, and 2) it is trying to make money, so they've spent money on how to keep you addicted.
      - dghughes 2y ago
        That's true making money is the big part so there's no incentive to control any of it. We are the product. Our info and habits are more valuable than any ad we click on.
  - gtirloni 2y ago
    1994 with FidoNet access as well but I only interstate dial-up for that. Later in 1997 "proper" Internet access but still dial-up and only allowed to use after mid-night or on the weekends. Nothing compared to today's infinite scroll screens, constant notifications and "the algorithm". Hope that helps to clarify my point.
- nottorp 2y ago
  The internet is fine thank you. It's anything with a "social" component that's the problem. You need to split it further because I think the young uns think direct person-to-person messaging is also social media. That's fine too. It's when they start cramming unwanted content and "influencers" down your throat that the problem appears.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > It's anything with a "social" component that's the problem. This would include Hacker News, Discord, online forums, any video game...
    - nottorp 2y ago
      > This would include Hacker News, Discord, online forums, any video game... Wrong. Neither HN nor traditional online forums push content selected to keep you "engaged". Not sure if Discord has started peddling "content" yet. If it does now I haven't noticed on my install yet. As for video games, are you of the kind that believes all video games are competitive multiplayer? You're right about the free to play IAP fests on both desktop and mobile, wrong about, for example, single player games.
      - squigz 2y ago
        No True Social Platform, huh?
      - krapp 2y ago
        The entire purpose of karma here and on forums like Reddit is to keep you "engaged" by pushing the most popular content to the top of the thread. And many people make HN a part of their marketing and SEO strategy, so the incentive for a lot of what gets posted here is just to get eyeballs and clicks, or increase clout for the authors and visibility to YC. And of course YC uses this forum to advertise their own startups, so they have an incentive to maximize engagement.
        2y ago
- dfxm12 2y ago
  Ignorance is bliss.
- ajma 2y ago
  I don't remember feeling negatively affected by social media until politics started to get into my feed.
bitsandboots 2y ago
And, though easier to study the effect on children, it affects us all. Instant everything is an addictive stimulant and anxiety source. Social media encourages intense emotions. The ability to view only what you wish encourages confirmation bias and helps viewpoints at odds with reality from ever being challenged by reality. And unlimited feel-good content encourages a runaway desire for more, making reality boring. Some of us are lucky enough to have self restraint against it all. But the drugs are always lurking a click away.
- mistermann 2y ago
  > And unlimited feel-good content encourages a runaway desire for more, making reality boring. Agree, and a big and non-obvious part of this is that we've invested "all" of our resources in technology and profit oriented goals, rather than in things that make mainstream day to day life in our communities pleasant and non-boring, for all people. The physical runtime we are in supports a massive diversity of gameplay and outcomes, unfortunately we've somehow "chosen" a model of governance that constantly makes poor choices. This could be fixed, but we've been trained to worship the very thing that is ruining life here on Earth. To me, this is quite a hilarious situation, it is like living in a sitcom. I wonder why reality works this way but we are not able to change it. Maybe being not able to talk about it (skilfully) is part of the problem.
  - bitsandboots 2y ago
    Years ago when the first VR headset was released I believe the wikipedia article on "list of emerging technologies" had listed one of VR's outcomes as "alternative to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_reality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_reality " It disturbs me how achievable that is. It's cool that technology has advanced to a point that we can choose to disregard reality, but I don't think we're handling that power very well
    - mistermann 2y ago
      Alternate reality: we finally have the basic technology in place such that we now have the opportunity to understand actual reality for the first time ever.
ryandrake 2y ago
> impact of internet and social media (and consequently smartphones) Every article (and a lot of HN comments) seems to blur the distinction between phones and social media. This article already does it in the second sentence. They need to start getting more precise, and studies need to better control for one when they study the other. (Do the actual studies do a proper job distinguishing? I don't follow the research.) Is social media the harmful thing or is it smartphones?

gtirloni 2y ago

I don't remember feeling depressed about my Internet usage before social networks existed. Just making a point to try and separate those two, as impossible as it seems these days.

technothrasher 2y ago
When did you start using the Internet? I was already using social networks (Multi-user BBS's and FidoNet) before I even first got onto the Internet in 1988, and then immediately got on to Usenet and IRC for social networking.
- dghughes 2y ago
  Yeah late 80s early 90s BBS (terrible name of BATE) was the first thing I ever did on a computer other than my Atary 600XL. Talk to actual people!? Wow! Then onto IRC where "no flaming" (arguing or trolling) was a strict rule. But 90% of it was people wanting to hookup people asking ASL was every second sentence. But whatever modern social media is there is something different about it.
  - technothrasher 2y ago
    I think the biggest differences with modern social media are that 1) it constantly seeks your attention with notifications, and 2) it is trying to make money, so they've spent money on how to keep you addicted.
    - dghughes 2y ago
      That's true making money is the big part so there's no incentive to control any of it. We are the product. Our info and habits are more valuable than any ad we click on.
- gtirloni 2y ago
  1994 with FidoNet access as well but I only interstate dial-up for that. Later in 1997 "proper" Internet access but still dial-up and only allowed to use after mid-night or on the weekends. Nothing compared to today's infinite scroll screens, constant notifications and "the algorithm". Hope that helps to clarify my point.
nottorp 2y ago
The internet is fine thank you. It's anything with a "social" component that's the problem. You need to split it further because I think the young uns think direct person-to-person messaging is also social media. That's fine too. It's when they start cramming unwanted content and "influencers" down your throat that the problem appears.
- squigz 2y ago
  > It's anything with a "social" component that's the problem. This would include Hacker News, Discord, online forums, any video game...
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > This would include Hacker News, Discord, online forums, any video game... Wrong. Neither HN nor traditional online forums push content selected to keep you "engaged". Not sure if Discord has started peddling "content" yet. If it does now I haven't noticed on my install yet. As for video games, are you of the kind that believes all video games are competitive multiplayer? You're right about the free to play IAP fests on both desktop and mobile, wrong about, for example, single player games.
    - squigz 2y ago
      No True Social Platform, huh?
    - krapp 2y ago
      The entire purpose of karma here and on forums like Reddit is to keep you "engaged" by pushing the most popular content to the top of the thread. And many people make HN a part of their marketing and SEO strategy, so the incentive for a lot of what gets posted here is just to get eyeballs and clicks, or increase clout for the authors and visibility to YC. And of course YC uses this forum to advertise their own startups, so they have an incentive to maximize engagement.
      - 2y ago
dfxm12 2y ago
Ignorance is bliss.
ajma 2y ago
I don't remember feeling negatively affected by social media until politics started to get into my feed.

bitsandboots 2y ago

And, though easier to study the effect on children, it affects us all. Instant everything is an addictive stimulant and anxiety source. Social media encourages intense emotions. The ability to view only what you wish encourages confirmation bias and helps viewpoints at odds with reality from ever being challenged by reality. And unlimited feel-good content encourages a runaway desire for more, making reality boring. Some of us are lucky enough to have self restraint against it all. But the drugs are always lurking a click away.

mistermann 2y ago
> And unlimited feel-good content encourages a runaway desire for more, making reality boring. Agree, and a big and non-obvious part of this is that we've invested "all" of our resources in technology and profit oriented goals, rather than in things that make mainstream day to day life in our communities pleasant and non-boring, for all people. The physical runtime we are in supports a massive diversity of gameplay and outcomes, unfortunately we've somehow "chosen" a model of governance that constantly makes poor choices. This could be fixed, but we've been trained to worship the very thing that is ruining life here on Earth. To me, this is quite a hilarious situation, it is like living in a sitcom. I wonder why reality works this way but we are not able to change it. Maybe being not able to talk about it (skilfully) is part of the problem.
- bitsandboots 2y ago
  Years ago when the first VR headset was released I believe the wikipedia article on "list of emerging technologies" had listed one of VR's outcomes as "alternative to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_reality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_reality " It disturbs me how achievable that is. It's cool that technology has advanced to a point that we can choose to disregard reality, but I don't think we're handling that power very well
  - mistermann 2y ago
    Alternate reality: we finally have the basic technology in place such that we now have the opportunity to understand actual reality for the first time ever.

ryandrake 2y ago

> impact of internet and social media (and consequently smartphones) Every article (and a lot of HN comments) seems to blur the distinction between phones and social media. This article already does it in the second sentence. They need to start getting more precise, and studies need to better control for one when they study the other. (Do the actual studies do a proper job distinguishing? I don't follow the research.) Is social media the harmful thing or is it smartphones?