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The UK still has a heavily embedded caste or caste-like social circumstance. Pharma and finance have somewhat eschewed this tradition, but even those industries

The UK still has a heavily embedded caste or caste-like social circumstance. Pharma and finance have somewhat eschewed this tradition, but even those industries still have its embedded lords and ladies. Many of their smartest head to the US (or elsewhere), and Brexit has set them back decades from achieving the "richest country" status. A software engineer can double their earnings by moving to the US (if they can manage to). The owners of capital are generally not creators, and until that changes nor will their economic station.

intellix 2y ago
or move into Europe where the weather is great and life is happier (from someone who did). It's miserable in the UK and everyone agrees, though not everyone has the situation or balls to make the leap...
- zwnow 2y ago
  What makes you think we are generally happier? Europe is experiencing a right wing shift due to people being unhappy. The coming years won't be good for any of us to be honest.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    The UK experienced that same right wing shift 14 years ago and is now dealing with the fallout. Europe is still in its honeymoon phase with the latest batch of right wing demagogues.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > UK experienced that same right wing shift 14 years ago Not sure these are comparable. Britain’s shift was led by its elites. Europe’s is closer to a dumping of its elites. Taken to their logical ends, the Britain after its threatened political revolutions will still look recognisable. France post RN or Germany AfD would be completely remade.
      - throwup238 2y ago
        > Not sure these are comparable. Britain’s shift was led by its elites. Europe’s is closer to a dumping of its elites. What does that mean? How is a political party funded by a bunch of generational rich right wingers dumping elites? None of these right wing parties would exist without rich people funding them. They're not grassroots movements, regardless of how they try to portray themselves.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > How is a political party funded by a bunch of generational rich right wingers dumping elites? It’s a new set of elites. Starmer is still connected and conversant with the present batch of elites. > None of these right wing parties would exist without rich people funding them This is true of practically every revolution outside fairy tales. (It’s why fairy tales need divine intervention and/or superpowers to be believable.)
        throwup238 2y ago
        What is the new set of elites in France and Germany? How are they different from the old batch of elites? As far as I can tell, it's all the same donors and special interests. The only difference is in the rhetorical window dressing. You might as well be comparing Lidl and Aldi.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > How are they different from the old batch of elites? They’re in different social circles! They don’t socialise with each other. That’s the difference. Bardella is a college drop-out, for instance. > it's all the same donors and special interests If you aren’t looking for how subsets in that group align and reälign you’re missing the entirety of politics.
    - csomar 2y ago
      France very recently did a full 180.
      - cassianoleal 2y ago
        Not quite. France has been "centre" for a while. Recently the far-right gained some ground. A left alliance appeared but now Macron's centre doesn't want to bring the largest party of the left alliance into the government. That's at most a 25 degree turn IMO, but in reality it's probably going to be crazy steering and hoping not to hit the guardrails or run off the cliff.
    - c7THEC2DDFVV2V 2y ago
      death of left was with new labour. That was the _real_ shift to the right.
- omnicognate 2y ago
  > and everyone agrees I don't.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
hrzc 2y ago
The owners of capital - the "Leisure class" that dont need to create yet exist in every society - have another purpose beyond creating things and that is to keep an extremely diverse set of chimps (with different needs, personalities,values,skill,knowlege etc) together. This not something the creative classes can do. As the gaps and differences between people grow in all kinds of dimension, keeping the chimp troupe together is a non trivial issue. Thats why over the top luxury, leisure, compensation levels etc emerge. People of all kinds lap that shit up when they get a taste. But since its a superficial quick fix solution to the root problem of social cohesion lots of new issues get created. The creative classes are not spending enough time on root cause (especially once they get a taste of luxury and leisure).
bamboozled 2y ago
If you think about the times when England was on top, what do you remember about it? They made things, they made really good things. Precision tools, weapons, navy ships, fighter jets, amazing cars, trains, computers. The best tools I've ever used as a woodworker have all been English. I really miss that time hanging out in my grandfathers shed using all his British, American and German hand tools. I sort of lost track of them after his death because I thought that period would just go on forever...shame :( I don't mind Chinese stuff, I have "some" of it, but to this day, nothing can compare with the stuff I own from the UK. Disclaimer: Not British.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  “English” and “British” are not interchangeable.
  - c7THEC2DDFVV2V 2y ago
    depends who you're speaking to.
    - fmobus 2y ago
      So, you admit you don't know the difference then.
    - thebruce87m 2y ago
      As someone who is British but not English, you’re going to have to explain that one to me.
      - c7THEC2DDFVV2V 2y ago
        I've met many Welsh, Scottish and English who don't identify as British. I'm <insert nation> first, not British. I'm British, born in England.
- nuc1e0n 2y ago
  The UK stills makes good cars, but the management at British car plants is now Japanese. When the management was British there was a lot of industrial action. No longer. What does that say about what they teach at places like Eton?

intellix 2y ago

or move into Europe where the weather is great and life is happier (from someone who did). It's miserable in the UK and everyone agrees, though not everyone has the situation or balls to make the leap...

zwnow 2y ago
What makes you think we are generally happier? Europe is experiencing a right wing shift due to people being unhappy. The coming years won't be good for any of us to be honest.
- throwup238 2y ago
  The UK experienced that same right wing shift 14 years ago and is now dealing with the fallout. Europe is still in its honeymoon phase with the latest batch of right wing demagogues.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > UK experienced that same right wing shift 14 years ago Not sure these are comparable. Britain’s shift was led by its elites. Europe’s is closer to a dumping of its elites. Taken to their logical ends, the Britain after its threatened political revolutions will still look recognisable. France post RN or Germany AfD would be completely remade.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      > Not sure these are comparable. Britain’s shift was led by its elites. Europe’s is closer to a dumping of its elites. What does that mean? How is a political party funded by a bunch of generational rich right wingers dumping elites? None of these right wing parties would exist without rich people funding them. They're not grassroots movements, regardless of how they try to portray themselves.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > How is a political party funded by a bunch of generational rich right wingers dumping elites? It’s a new set of elites. Starmer is still connected and conversant with the present batch of elites. > None of these right wing parties would exist without rich people funding them This is true of practically every revolution outside fairy tales. (It’s why fairy tales need divine intervention and/or superpowers to be believable.)
        throwup238 2y ago
        What is the new set of elites in France and Germany? How are they different from the old batch of elites? As far as I can tell, it's all the same donors and special interests. The only difference is in the rhetorical window dressing. You might as well be comparing Lidl and Aldi.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > How are they different from the old batch of elites? They’re in different social circles! They don’t socialise with each other. That’s the difference. Bardella is a college drop-out, for instance. > it's all the same donors and special interests If you aren’t looking for how subsets in that group align and reälign you’re missing the entirety of politics.
  - csomar 2y ago
    France very recently did a full 180.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      Not quite. France has been "centre" for a while. Recently the far-right gained some ground. A left alliance appeared but now Macron's centre doesn't want to bring the largest party of the left alliance into the government. That's at most a 25 degree turn IMO, but in reality it's probably going to be crazy steering and hoping not to hit the guardrails or run off the cliff.
  - c7THEC2DDFVV2V 2y ago
    death of left was with new labour. That was the _real_ shift to the right.
omnicognate 2y ago
> and everyone agrees I don't.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

hrzc 2y ago

The owners of capital - the "Leisure class" that dont need to create yet exist in every society - have another purpose beyond creating things and that is to keep an extremely diverse set of chimps (with different needs, personalities,values,skill,knowlege etc) together. This not something the creative classes can do. As the gaps and differences between people grow in all kinds of dimension, keeping the chimp troupe together is a non trivial issue. Thats why over the top luxury, leisure, compensation levels etc emerge. People of all kinds lap that shit up when they get a taste. But since its a superficial quick fix solution to the root problem of social cohesion lots of new issues get created. The creative classes are not spending enough time on root cause (especially once they get a taste of luxury and leisure).

bamboozled 2y ago

If you think about the times when England was on top, what do you remember about it? They made things, they made really good things. Precision tools, weapons, navy ships, fighter jets, amazing cars, trains, computers. The best tools I've ever used as a woodworker have all been English. I really miss that time hanging out in my grandfathers shed using all his British, American and German hand tools. I sort of lost track of them after his death because I thought that period would just go on forever...shame :( I don't mind Chinese stuff, I have "some" of it, but to this day, nothing can compare with the stuff I own from the UK. Disclaimer: Not British.

thebruce87m 2y ago
“English” and “British” are not interchangeable.
- c7THEC2DDFVV2V 2y ago
  depends who you're speaking to.
  - fmobus 2y ago
    So, you admit you don't know the difference then.
  - thebruce87m 2y ago
    As someone who is British but not English, you’re going to have to explain that one to me.
    - c7THEC2DDFVV2V 2y ago
      I've met many Welsh, Scottish and English who don't identify as British. I'm <insert nation> first, not British. I'm British, born in England.
nuc1e0n 2y ago
The UK stills makes good cars, but the management at British car plants is now Japanese. When the management was British there was a lot of industrial action. No longer. What does that say about what they teach at places like Eton?