11 ms·

This is going to backfire on Apple. It is absurd the lengths they are going to. Imagine if when you bought a car the manufacturer tried to control what stereo

by yesyes 14y ago

This is going to backfire on Apple. It is absurd the lengths they are going to. Imagine if when you bought a car the manufacturer tried to control what stereo you could install. "We made this car, and you have to play by our rules." Insane.

Terretta 14y ago
Actually, controlling aftermarket parts is crucial to automakers. Add nitrous, void your warranty. Modify chip, void your warranty. Make a cosmetic change, no problem.
- yesyes 14y ago
  Is the warranty the issue here? Isn't it the right to add some functionality to the device? I could see your point if there was an argument between Amoeba and Apple about voiding warranties. But I don't see that being the issue.
  - uxp 14y ago
    A warranty is just a contract, much like the contract put in place that allows Rogue Amoeba to sell software on the iOS and Mac platforms. Adding in support for AirPlay to an app and selling that won't void your or my iPhone's Warranty if we were to install it, but it can void the contract put in place between Rogue Amoeba and Apple, if even just for that singular app. Here is the real reason Apple threw this app out of the store: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4087666 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4087666 RA was using a private key derived from a firmware update for the Apple Airport Basestations in order to encrypt the audio stream in accordance of the AirPlay protocol.
    - yesyes 14y ago
      That reason makes Apple look worse. The example of PGP is silly. PGP is an open protocol. The user can control their own encryption. Apple like Adobe wants to take an open protocol for streaming, in Apple's case RTSP, and make it proprietary. And like Adobe they are finding this is not so easy. The more they seek to exert unreasonable control over how people use devices they have already paid for, the more motivation they give for people to find workarounds. There are benefits to everyone in having open protocols, as the thousands of examples in the RFC's demonstrate, but the only benefit of the "AirPlay" protocol is to Apple. Making devices that can only communicate with other devices you make is dubious business where networking is concerned. It just make everyone's life more difficult- except Apple's. You can't blame people for trying to get devices and accessories made by different manufacturers to work together. RA should not even have to jump through these hoops. These devices that Apple makes should be able to network with devices from other manufacturers. We do not need an "AirPlay" protocol controlled by one company.
majormajor 14y ago
Well, car manufacturers have certainly not been very aftermarket-friendly with their center stack over the past decade. It might actually be fairly similar after all: Want a custom stereo in your new car with a fancy center stack setup with a non-standard-size stereo and possibly even integrated AC/heater controls? You're going to have to jump through a lot of hoops. Want software with more functionality than Apple exposes to developers? There's always jailbreaking... In neither case has there been a substantial consumer backlash.
- yesyes 14y ago
  What hoops? If the purchaser wants to install a stereo he can choose to do it himself or take the car to a shop that installs stereos. What's happening in this case is, roughly, by analogy, the car manufacturer is trying to exercise control over a shop that is selling stereos that can be installed in the car. Is that overreaching? Would consumers complain if a car manufacturer actually tried to do that? The factory installed stereo better be very good.
  - majormajor 14y ago
    Go look at a car from the 90s with a DIN or double-DIN stereo, then go look at one from the past five years, where the prevalence of nonstandard sized stereos has gone way up, as has the complexity of how tightly coupled they are to the rest of the car. Those are the hoops. I don't think the manufacturers are upset at all that one of the side effects of this trend has been to make aftermarket head unit installs a lot less convenient. And I don't know any manufacturer that will sell you someone else's head unit as an aftermarket piece. It's up to you to find out how to take everything apart and fit something else in there on your own, or to find someone who knows—basically, jailbreaking your dashboard. Except you generally lose stuff (like steering wheel controls), while I hear jailbreaking is pretty painless these days. Edit: Apple's app store isn't some third party stereo store, it's a store owned by the manufacturer itself. And car manufacturers are famous for having highly priced proprietary replacement parts, especially when it comes to electronics like stereos, if you aren't willing to deal with an outside store/brand. I really don't see any way Apple's less flexible with the iPhone than a car manufacturer is with their cars.

by yesyes 14y ago

Terretta 14y ago

Actually, controlling aftermarket parts is crucial to automakers. Add nitrous, void your warranty. Modify chip, void your warranty. Make a cosmetic change, no problem.

yesyes 14y ago
Is the warranty the issue here? Isn't it the right to add some functionality to the device? I could see your point if there was an argument between Amoeba and Apple about voiding warranties. But I don't see that being the issue.
- uxp 14y ago
  A warranty is just a contract, much like the contract put in place that allows Rogue Amoeba to sell software on the iOS and Mac platforms. Adding in support for AirPlay to an app and selling that won't void your or my iPhone's Warranty if we were to install it, but it can void the contract put in place between Rogue Amoeba and Apple, if even just for that singular app. Here is the real reason Apple threw this app out of the store: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4087666 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4087666 RA was using a private key derived from a firmware update for the Apple Airport Basestations in order to encrypt the audio stream in accordance of the AirPlay protocol.
  - yesyes 14y ago
    That reason makes Apple look worse. The example of PGP is silly. PGP is an open protocol. The user can control their own encryption. Apple like Adobe wants to take an open protocol for streaming, in Apple's case RTSP, and make it proprietary. And like Adobe they are finding this is not so easy. The more they seek to exert unreasonable control over how people use devices they have already paid for, the more motivation they give for people to find workarounds. There are benefits to everyone in having open protocols, as the thousands of examples in the RFC's demonstrate, but the only benefit of the "AirPlay" protocol is to Apple. Making devices that can only communicate with other devices you make is dubious business where networking is concerned. It just make everyone's life more difficult- except Apple's. You can't blame people for trying to get devices and accessories made by different manufacturers to work together. RA should not even have to jump through these hoops. These devices that Apple makes should be able to network with devices from other manufacturers. We do not need an "AirPlay" protocol controlled by one company.

majormajor 14y ago

Well, car manufacturers have certainly not been very aftermarket-friendly with their center stack over the past decade. It might actually be fairly similar after all: Want a custom stereo in your new car with a fancy center stack setup with a non-standard-size stereo and possibly even integrated AC/heater controls? You're going to have to jump through a lot of hoops. Want software with more functionality than Apple exposes to developers? There's always jailbreaking... In neither case has there been a substantial consumer backlash.

yesyes 14y ago
What hoops? If the purchaser wants to install a stereo he can choose to do it himself or take the car to a shop that installs stereos. What's happening in this case is, roughly, by analogy, the car manufacturer is trying to exercise control over a shop that is selling stereos that can be installed in the car. Is that overreaching? Would consumers complain if a car manufacturer actually tried to do that? The factory installed stereo better be very good.
- majormajor 14y ago
  Go look at a car from the 90s with a DIN or double-DIN stereo, then go look at one from the past five years, where the prevalence of nonstandard sized stereos has gone way up, as has the complexity of how tightly coupled they are to the rest of the car. Those are the hoops. I don't think the manufacturers are upset at all that one of the side effects of this trend has been to make aftermarket head unit installs a lot less convenient. And I don't know any manufacturer that will sell you someone else's head unit as an aftermarket piece. It's up to you to find out how to take everything apart and fit something else in there on your own, or to find someone who knows—basically, jailbreaking your dashboard. Except you generally lose stuff (like steering wheel controls), while I hear jailbreaking is pretty painless these days. Edit: Apple's app store isn't some third party stereo store, it's a store owned by the manufacturer itself. And car manufacturers are famous for having highly priced proprietary replacement parts, especially when it comes to electronics like stereos, if you aren't willing to deal with an outside store/brand. I really don't see any way Apple's less flexible with the iPhone than a car manufacturer is with their cars.