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I was in the market for a decent Linux laptop, but after having seen one in person, I'm less convinced. Note: I'm talking about the 13" one. The battery life u

I was in the market for a decent Linux laptop, but after having seen one in person, I'm less convinced. Note: I'm talking about the 13" one. The battery life using Linux isn't good, the screen is isn't that good, the touch pad is okay, but not great, the layout of the arrow keys is ridiculous. I don't get how something can market itself as an enthusiast laptop and come with arrow keys like these. And I agree that for this price, you should expect best-in-class components. But the killer for me was seeing the modular port concept in action. It's the kind of thing that sounds great on paper, but in practice doesn't really work. It just wastes space that could be used for a larger battery, while limiting the number of ports that the laptop can fit at any one time. It's not a Linux laptop, but just for comparison, a Macbook Pro has way more ports, and all of them are usable at once. I'm sure things will improve, but basically my impression is that the Framework concept doesn't seem that well thought out yet. And the upgradability guarantee might lock them into their unfinished ideas for a lot longer than other manufacturers would be. I really hope they can solve these issues, because what they're trying to do is fantastic, but it’s not for me just yet.

N-Krause 2y ago
You're saying you're in the market for a Linux laptop and compare it to a macbook. I don't see the fair comparison to be honest. Sure there is Ashai and you could install Linux on an Intel MacBook, but for those setups you don't have company that has explicitly support for Linux. As for your other points, those are fair even though subjective. I really do like the modular ports, especially because they expose the possibility to build your own modules (or buy community made modules) for the laptop because everything is open source.
- codeflo 2y ago
  I don't see why I shouldn't compare them. Besides economies of scale, there's no inherent reason why a company couldn't build a Macbook-quality laptop that runs Linux.
sirwitti 2y ago
In your opinion, what's the problem with the port concept of the frame.work?
- codeflo 2y ago
  To quote myself in the post you responded to "It just wastes space that could be used for a larger battery, while limiting the number of ports that the laptop can fit at any one time." The ports I personally need are HDMI, lots of USB-C ports, sometimes USB-A (but less and less), and sometimes an SD card. I know everybody has different requirements, but I'm also sure that's at least somewhat typical. And given that, I can't be the only one who thinks it's silly to reserve space for several 4x3x1 cm large USB-C-to-USB-C converters in a space-constrained device. [1] https://frame.work/de/en/products/usb-c-expansion-card?v=FRACCKBZ01 https://frame.work/de/en/products/usb-c-expansion-card?v=FRA...
  - delfinom 2y ago
    As far as I know, those aren't wasting the space for a battery. Framework opted for their current battery sizes. Larger capacities are available for the same size of battery they do have. For example, my other favorite laptop, the Redmi Pro Books basically have the same physical size batteries but at 80wh/99wh ratings. I just think Framework can't find a contract manufacturer for higher density batteries at their volume.
    - codeflo 2y ago
      > As far as I know, those aren't wasting the space for a battery. Framework opted for their current battery sizes. I don’t get that logic. There’s extra space; more battery could fit in there. The fact that higher density batteries exist in no way invalidates that. (You might perhaps have a point if battery life was already excellent and the more important goal might be to save weight, but that’s not the case at all.)
      - delfinom 2y ago
        In any laptop, if you have IO on both sides of the laptop, then the motherboard is at least going to extend to both sides. There is no room for batteries. Especially with high speed data links such as USB3 and USB4 these days, you need a nice impedance controlled PCB to the edge or some expensive cabling or in the case of framework, IO modules that are pcbs with a connector bridging the distance further. The opportunity is then taken to stuff the speakers in the framework in that same space. It's literally no different than a MacBook Pro or other mfgs. The only thing I could see is they need to figure out how to miniaturize their speakers to expand the battery size a bit. Or move the speakers to the main board and project out the top. Their speakers are currently larger than the competition and not really any better while stealing battery space. I would love to see them offer a larger battery with the trade-off of the user removing the modular speakers. Because personally I think using sound devices in public is just fucking rude and I'll use better quality earbuds/headphones both in public and privately anyway.
haspok 2y ago
Yeah, I have a HP laptop for work, with the same cursor setup - it is terrible. Thinkpad FTW! The only thing that saves it for HP is that you get an extra column of Delete/Home/PgUp/PgDn/End keys on the side. ps. Tuxedo has the same problem. No Linux-native laptop suits me :( Thinkpads it is.

N-Krause 2y ago

You're saying you're in the market for a Linux laptop and compare it to a macbook. I don't see the fair comparison to be honest. Sure there is Ashai and you could install Linux on an Intel MacBook, but for those setups you don't have company that has explicitly support for Linux. As for your other points, those are fair even though subjective. I really do like the modular ports, especially because they expose the possibility to build your own modules (or buy community made modules) for the laptop because everything is open source.

codeflo 2y ago
I don't see why I shouldn't compare them. Besides economies of scale, there's no inherent reason why a company couldn't build a Macbook-quality laptop that runs Linux.

sirwitti 2y ago

In your opinion, what's the problem with the port concept of the frame.work?

codeflo 2y ago
To quote myself in the post you responded to "It just wastes space that could be used for a larger battery, while limiting the number of ports that the laptop can fit at any one time." The ports I personally need are HDMI, lots of USB-C ports, sometimes USB-A (but less and less), and sometimes an SD card. I know everybody has different requirements, but I'm also sure that's at least somewhat typical. And given that, I can't be the only one who thinks it's silly to reserve space for several 4x3x1 cm large USB-C-to-USB-C converters in a space-constrained device. [1] https://frame.work/de/en/products/usb-c-expansion-card?v=FRACCKBZ01 https://frame.work/de/en/products/usb-c-expansion-card?v=FRA...
- delfinom 2y ago
  As far as I know, those aren't wasting the space for a battery. Framework opted for their current battery sizes. Larger capacities are available for the same size of battery they do have. For example, my other favorite laptop, the Redmi Pro Books basically have the same physical size batteries but at 80wh/99wh ratings. I just think Framework can't find a contract manufacturer for higher density batteries at their volume.
  - codeflo 2y ago
    > As far as I know, those aren't wasting the space for a battery. Framework opted for their current battery sizes. I don’t get that logic. There’s extra space; more battery could fit in there. The fact that higher density batteries exist in no way invalidates that. (You might perhaps have a point if battery life was already excellent and the more important goal might be to save weight, but that’s not the case at all.)
    - delfinom 2y ago
      In any laptop, if you have IO on both sides of the laptop, then the motherboard is at least going to extend to both sides. There is no room for batteries. Especially with high speed data links such as USB3 and USB4 these days, you need a nice impedance controlled PCB to the edge or some expensive cabling or in the case of framework, IO modules that are pcbs with a connector bridging the distance further. The opportunity is then taken to stuff the speakers in the framework in that same space. It's literally no different than a MacBook Pro or other mfgs. The only thing I could see is they need to figure out how to miniaturize their speakers to expand the battery size a bit. Or move the speakers to the main board and project out the top. Their speakers are currently larger than the competition and not really any better while stealing battery space. I would love to see them offer a larger battery with the trade-off of the user removing the modular speakers. Because personally I think using sound devices in public is just fucking rude and I'll use better quality earbuds/headphones both in public and privately anyway.

haspok 2y ago

Yeah, I have a HP laptop for work, with the same cursor setup - it is terrible. Thinkpad FTW! The only thing that saves it for HP is that you get an extra column of Delete/Home/PgUp/PgDn/End keys on the side. ps. Tuxedo has the same problem. No Linux-native laptop suits me :( Thinkpads it is.