6 ms·

What’s weird is that people still think tobacco smoking is about nicotine being addictive and dangerous, when it is literally everything else in the smoke that

What’s weird is that people still think tobacco smoking is about nicotine being addictive and dangerous, when it is literally everything else in the smoke that makes it extremely addictive and mortally dangerous.

jhgvh 2y ago
Can you please tell me which of these mandatory warning messages you feel fails to convey that cigarette smoke, on the whole, is dangerous? https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/labeling-and-warning-statements-tobacco-products/cigarette-labeling-and-health-warning-requirements https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/labeling-and-warning-st...
boxed 2y ago
The nicotine is what makes it addictive, but everything else makes it deadly. This distinction is well known here in Sweden where we have snus, and also lower rates of lung cancer and cigarette use than the rest of Europe by a LOT.
- EnigmaFlare 2y ago
  It's not known in Australia where you have to have a prescription to buy a vape but can buy cigarettes freely. Apparently they're relaxing the prescription requirement later in the year but still only pharmacies will be allowed to sell them.
- daemin 2y ago
  Though at the same time I would wager a larger rate of gum disease and mouth cancer than the rest of Europe by a lot.
  - boxed 2y ago
    Not cancer. Because it's, again, not the nicotine that causes the cancer. Snus does NOT increase cancer risk. It decreases cavities by a lot (presumably because the bacteria doesn't like the environment anymore), but also destroys your gums. All in all, depending on your dosage it could be a wash or even positive for your oral health. It's absolutely disgusting, but it's not dangerous :P
  - bookaway 2y ago
    Going by a quick skim of the 2022 WHO oral health numbers, Sweden[0] doesn't seem significantly worse off oral-health wise than Germany, Holland, or the UK. In fact it's oral cancer incident rates appear a bit better. Though the UK doesn't have great cancer incident rates, it's periodontal disease rate seem to be significantly lesser than the other three (perhaps due to close monitoring as a result of the "bad British teeth" stereotype). Sweden male tobacco use percentages are slightly higher than the other three countries, which might be a function of the population additionally using non-cigarette tobacco substitutes perhaps as was mentioned by others. [0] https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/country-profiles/oral-health/oral-health-swe-2022-country-profile.pdf?sfvrsn=9988347a_9&download=true https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/country-profil...
- brobdingnag_pp 2y ago
  That is not true. It is the interaction of nicotine with various monoamine oxidase inhibitors that makes tobacco smoking addictive, to an extent that it could be stated that it is the MAOIs entirely causing the addictive behaviour: the exact same MAOIs are also found in coffee, after all. Why are nicotine pouches and vapes addictive, then? The answer lies in the flavourings, which themselves have psychoactive properties, likely also through MAO inhibition.
  - boxed 2y ago
    You will have to supply something to back up such a wild statement. Nicotine has been shown to be extremely addictive all the way from humans down to single neurons in a petri dish, for decades.
  - camgunz 2y ago
    God this Gwern junk will never die. There's tons [0] of evidence that nicotine is addictive on its own. > Why are nicotine pouches and vapes addictive It's the nicotine. [0]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nicotine+addictive+site%3Anih.gov&t=ffip&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nicotine+addictive+site%3Anih.gov&...
    - Aerroon 2y ago
      I'm not here to argue, but all top 5 links for me are about smoking. I've not heard of people being addicted to nicotine patches for example, especially non-smokers.
      - boston_clone 2y ago
        https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/health-effects-tobacco-use/nicotine-why-tobacco-products-are-addictive https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/health-effects-tobacco-...
      - camgunz 2y ago
        Nicotine Addiction: Neurobiology and Mechanism: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32322429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32322429/ Neurophysiology of Nicotine Addiction: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22454789/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22454789/

jhgvh 2y ago

Can you please tell me which of these mandatory warning messages you feel fails to convey that cigarette smoke, on the whole, is dangerous? https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/labeling-and-warning-statements-tobacco-products/cigarette-labeling-and-health-warning-requirements https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/labeling-and-warning-st...

boxed 2y ago

The nicotine is what makes it addictive, but everything else makes it deadly. This distinction is well known here in Sweden where we have snus, and also lower rates of lung cancer and cigarette use than the rest of Europe by a LOT.

EnigmaFlare 2y ago
It's not known in Australia where you have to have a prescription to buy a vape but can buy cigarettes freely. Apparently they're relaxing the prescription requirement later in the year but still only pharmacies will be allowed to sell them.
daemin 2y ago
Though at the same time I would wager a larger rate of gum disease and mouth cancer than the rest of Europe by a lot.
- boxed 2y ago
  Not cancer. Because it's, again, not the nicotine that causes the cancer. Snus does NOT increase cancer risk. It decreases cavities by a lot (presumably because the bacteria doesn't like the environment anymore), but also destroys your gums. All in all, depending on your dosage it could be a wash or even positive for your oral health. It's absolutely disgusting, but it's not dangerous :P
- bookaway 2y ago
  Going by a quick skim of the 2022 WHO oral health numbers, Sweden[0] doesn't seem significantly worse off oral-health wise than Germany, Holland, or the UK. In fact it's oral cancer incident rates appear a bit better. Though the UK doesn't have great cancer incident rates, it's periodontal disease rate seem to be significantly lesser than the other three (perhaps due to close monitoring as a result of the "bad British teeth" stereotype). Sweden male tobacco use percentages are slightly higher than the other three countries, which might be a function of the population additionally using non-cigarette tobacco substitutes perhaps as was mentioned by others. [0] https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/country-profiles/oral-health/oral-health-swe-2022-country-profile.pdf?sfvrsn=9988347a_9&download=true https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/country-profil...
brobdingnag_pp 2y ago
That is not true. It is the interaction of nicotine with various monoamine oxidase inhibitors that makes tobacco smoking addictive, to an extent that it could be stated that it is the MAOIs entirely causing the addictive behaviour: the exact same MAOIs are also found in coffee, after all. Why are nicotine pouches and vapes addictive, then? The answer lies in the flavourings, which themselves have psychoactive properties, likely also through MAO inhibition.
- boxed 2y ago
  You will have to supply something to back up such a wild statement. Nicotine has been shown to be extremely addictive all the way from humans down to single neurons in a petri dish, for decades.
- camgunz 2y ago
  God this Gwern junk will never die. There's tons [0] of evidence that nicotine is addictive on its own. > Why are nicotine pouches and vapes addictive It's the nicotine. [0]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nicotine+addictive+site%3Anih.gov&t=ffip&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nicotine+addictive+site%3Anih.gov&...
  - Aerroon 2y ago
    I'm not here to argue, but all top 5 links for me are about smoking. I've not heard of people being addicted to nicotine patches for example, especially non-smokers.
    - boston_clone 2y ago
      https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/health-effects-tobacco-use/nicotine-why-tobacco-products-are-addictive https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/health-effects-tobacco-...
    - camgunz 2y ago
      Nicotine Addiction: Neurobiology and Mechanism: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32322429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32322429/ Neurophysiology of Nicotine Addiction: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22454789/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22454789/