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I'm pretty confident, that Apple has the same goal. We are not there yet, but how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits?

by MilaM 2y ago

xattt 2y ago
> how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits? Typing as a service, with characters billed by the keystroke. A mixture of Wheel of Fortune and Scrabble rules apply. Vowels are free, but rare consonants or letter combinations carry a premium. /s
nerdjon 2y ago
I highly doubt it, Apple has not charged for Mac for 10 years. They have the profits from hardware and the upgrade cycle as new versions drop old hardware. I imagine if anything we will see a program like the iPhone upgrade program come to Mac. That would better fit their existing workflow anyways.
- bluescrn 2y ago
  Apple is almost a subscription service. You just pay in huge installments once every 2-5 years, by replacing the entire device when the battery degrades or performance is starting to feel underwhelming.
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    I'm looking at replacing my MacBook, but it's from 2015. I think 2-5 years is a bit of an overstatement. PC laptops I've owned in the past have fared much worse over the same time period.
    - bluescrn 2y ago
      The lower end of the spectrum is for phones, going through daily charge/discharge cycles. While they do a lot of things very well, desiging batteries, storage, and keyboards to be practically non-replaceable and denying any upgradeability (to upsell ludicrously overpriced storage at the initial purchase) is setting an upper limit on how long the device will remain useful for.
      - Retric 2y ago
        > The lower end of the spectrum is for phones, going through daily charge/discharge cycles. With iPhones you can replace the battery for a small fraction of the cost of a new phone. Plenty of people are using 5+ year old phones without doing so, it really depends on how much time you spend on the device per day and if you’re recharging mid day. Deep discharges drastically shorten lifespan, but again just get a new battery.
        bluescrn 2y ago
        The true cost of replacing an iPhone battery isn't the quoted dollar amount. It's the cost of being without your phone for an indeterminate period of time if you have to ship it to Apple for the battery replacement due to not living near an Apple Store.
        Retric 2y ago
        You don’t need to go to an Apple Store. However being somewhere near an Apple Store within a ~2 year window covers most people. Further, replacing a phone is itself painful so there’s no avoiding any inconvenience here.
        torstenvl 2y ago
        Best Buy is an authorized service provider. It takes an hour or so, maybe two if they're busy. It's much quicker than switching to a new phone. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/iphone-battery-replacement/5634901.p?skuId=5634901 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/iphone-battery-replacement/5634...
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        I have an iPhone X. When the battery degraded, I sent it in, the battery and the speaker is replaced, the latter free of charge. I even didn't know that my speaker was damaged to begin with. The service rep said that newer batteries last longer because they're newer tech (I laughed internally), but it's going strong for 4 (5?) years now, and it's at 83%, so I had to eat my hat about not believing her.
  - torstenvl 2y ago
    Why not just change the battery?
    - bluescrn 2y ago
      Because it's been made intentionally difficult, with significant risk of further damaging the product you're trying to repair. And there's no official supply of replacements. A battery change shouldn't require heat guns, special suction/clamp tools, or adhesive-dissolving chemicals. It also shouldn't require being without your device for an unknown period of time to send it in for service.
      - fckgw 2y ago
        Ok, but a battery replacement is possible. You don't just throw it away. I've gotten battery replacements on various iPhones, iPads and Macbooks and it's a pretty straightforward processes.
        the_snooze 2y ago
        Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Would I like to be able to replace the battery in my Apple devices myself? Absolutely. Is it an unreasonable amount of money and effort to have the Apple Store do it? Not at all. Getting them to replace the battery is no big deal. If there's something to complain about, it's that they (probably intentionally) don't do a good job advertising their battery service.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        DEADMINCE 2y ago
        > Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Which is pretty reasonable. Giving up little bits of a control at a time is how we end up with no control at all.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  They charge up front with their margins.
- rafram 2y ago
  There’s just no way very many people would pay for a Mac upgrade program. The iPhone one works by having you pay the monthly installment price for the phone forever. That’s usually in the $30-40/month range, which many people can stomach in exchange for guaranteed new phones every year. But Mac installment prices are $200+ a month. There just isn’t a market for a laptop subscription that costs as much as car insurance.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    A Mac Upgrade program doesn't have to be the same upgrade cycle, same if they went the route of doing an iPad upgrade program. It would also help minimize the need to try to future proof your choice. I know when I go to buy a Mac I often way over spec since I am planning for at least 3 or 4 years. That conversation is completely different if I know I am getting an upgrade in 1 or 2 years. Meanwhile if the Mac Upgrade Program could be, idk a 2 year upgrade plan. Looking at the cheapest 16" M3 Max MBP. Right now that is $291.58 month for 12 months. If a Mac Upgrade Plan did the same timeline as iPhone where you paid over 2 years but could upgrade after a year that would be about $147.28. But it could likely be a 3 or 4 year timeline and be even cheaper. If we look at the lower end it gets even cheaper with the cheapest 16" MBP could be $104 a month. The cheapest 14" MPB could be $66.5 a month. Keeps going cheaper if you look at the Air. I feel like at that price the market very much exists when the top iPhone is $74.91 a month. The question is if the numbers make sense on Apple's side.
mschuster91 2y ago
As long as Apple charges > 1k $ for a 2TB SSD, a 5x markup on competition, they'll be fine. Apple is a hardware company first, then an App Store rent seeker, and a software company third. [1] https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage
- 7thpower 2y ago
  I am not as cynical as others about the compromises Apple is willing to make to grow, but it is worth noting that Tim sure does talk about services a lot: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-...
- walterbell 2y ago
  The Apple storage tax also creates #DongleLife, as port quotas discourage dedicating a port to external storage like the tiny Ultra Fit, https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07855LJ99 https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07....

I'm pretty confident, that Apple has the same goal. We are not there yet, but how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits?

by MilaM 2y ago

I'm pretty confident, that Apple has the same goal. We are not there yet, but how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits?

xattt 2y ago

> how else will they satisfy shareholders with ever-growing profits? Typing as a service, with characters billed by the keystroke. A mixture of Wheel of Fortune and Scrabble rules apply. Vowels are free, but rare consonants or letter combinations carry a premium. /s

nerdjon 2y ago

I highly doubt it, Apple has not charged for Mac for 10 years. They have the profits from hardware and the upgrade cycle as new versions drop old hardware. I imagine if anything we will see a program like the iPhone upgrade program come to Mac. That would better fit their existing workflow anyways.

bluescrn 2y ago
Apple is almost a subscription service. You just pay in huge installments once every 2-5 years, by replacing the entire device when the battery degrades or performance is starting to feel underwhelming.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  I'm looking at replacing my MacBook, but it's from 2015. I think 2-5 years is a bit of an overstatement. PC laptops I've owned in the past have fared much worse over the same time period.
  - bluescrn 2y ago
    The lower end of the spectrum is for phones, going through daily charge/discharge cycles. While they do a lot of things very well, desiging batteries, storage, and keyboards to be practically non-replaceable and denying any upgradeability (to upsell ludicrously overpriced storage at the initial purchase) is setting an upper limit on how long the device will remain useful for.
    - Retric 2y ago
      > The lower end of the spectrum is for phones, going through daily charge/discharge cycles. With iPhones you can replace the battery for a small fraction of the cost of a new phone. Plenty of people are using 5+ year old phones without doing so, it really depends on how much time you spend on the device per day and if you’re recharging mid day. Deep discharges drastically shorten lifespan, but again just get a new battery.
      - bluescrn 2y ago
        The true cost of replacing an iPhone battery isn't the quoted dollar amount. It's the cost of being without your phone for an indeterminate period of time if you have to ship it to Apple for the battery replacement due to not living near an Apple Store.
        Retric 2y ago
        You don’t need to go to an Apple Store. However being somewhere near an Apple Store within a ~2 year window covers most people. Further, replacing a phone is itself painful so there’s no avoiding any inconvenience here.
        torstenvl 2y ago
        Best Buy is an authorized service provider. It takes an hour or so, maybe two if they're busy. It's much quicker than switching to a new phone. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/iphone-battery-replacement/5634901.p?skuId=5634901 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/iphone-battery-replacement/5634...
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      I have an iPhone X. When the battery degraded, I sent it in, the battery and the speaker is replaced, the latter free of charge. I even didn't know that my speaker was damaged to begin with. The service rep said that newer batteries last longer because they're newer tech (I laughed internally), but it's going strong for 4 (5?) years now, and it's at 83%, so I had to eat my hat about not believing her.
- torstenvl 2y ago
  Why not just change the battery?
  - bluescrn 2y ago
    Because it's been made intentionally difficult, with significant risk of further damaging the product you're trying to repair. And there's no official supply of replacements. A battery change shouldn't require heat guns, special suction/clamp tools, or adhesive-dissolving chemicals. It also shouldn't require being without your device for an unknown period of time to send it in for service.
    - fckgw 2y ago
      Ok, but a battery replacement is possible. You don't just throw it away. I've gotten battery replacements on various iPhones, iPads and Macbooks and it's a pretty straightforward processes.
      - the_snooze 2y ago
        Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Would I like to be able to replace the battery in my Apple devices myself? Absolutely. Is it an unreasonable amount of money and effort to have the Apple Store do it? Not at all. Getting them to replace the battery is no big deal. If there's something to complain about, it's that they (probably intentionally) don't do a good job advertising their battery service.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        DEADMINCE 2y ago
        > Reading through bluescrn's comments, it seems like anything short of "I can easily replace the battery myself" is unacceptable. Which is pretty reasonable. Giving up little bits of a control at a time is how we end up with no control at all.
pjmlp 2y ago
They charge up front with their margins.
rafram 2y ago
There’s just no way very many people would pay for a Mac upgrade program. The iPhone one works by having you pay the monthly installment price for the phone forever. That’s usually in the $30-40/month range, which many people can stomach in exchange for guaranteed new phones every year. But Mac installment prices are $200+ a month. There just isn’t a market for a laptop subscription that costs as much as car insurance.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  A Mac Upgrade program doesn't have to be the same upgrade cycle, same if they went the route of doing an iPad upgrade program. It would also help minimize the need to try to future proof your choice. I know when I go to buy a Mac I often way over spec since I am planning for at least 3 or 4 years. That conversation is completely different if I know I am getting an upgrade in 1 or 2 years. Meanwhile if the Mac Upgrade Program could be, idk a 2 year upgrade plan. Looking at the cheapest 16" M3 Max MBP. Right now that is $291.58 month for 12 months. If a Mac Upgrade Plan did the same timeline as iPhone where you paid over 2 years but could upgrade after a year that would be about $147.28. But it could likely be a 3 or 4 year timeline and be even cheaper. If we look at the lower end it gets even cheaper with the cheapest 16" MBP could be $104 a month. The cheapest 14" MPB could be $66.5 a month. Keeps going cheaper if you look at the Air. I feel like at that price the market very much exists when the top iPhone is $74.91 a month. The question is if the numbers make sense on Apple's side.

mschuster91 2y ago

As long as Apple charges > 1k $ for a 2TB SSD, a 5x markup on competition, they'll be fine. Apple is a hardware company first, then an App Store rent seeker, and a software company third. [1] https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/mac/accessories/storage

7thpower 2y ago
I am not as cynical as others about the compromises Apple is willing to make to grow, but it is worth noting that Tim sure does talk about services a lot: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/05/apple-reports-second-...
walterbell 2y ago
The Apple storage tax also creates #DongleLife, as port quotas discourage dedicating a port to external storage like the tiny Ultra Fit, https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07855LJ99 https://www.amazon.ca/SanDisk-128GB-Ultra-Flash-Drive/dp/B07....