5 ms·

Why use mics for that if they have direct access to rpm of fans?

by ptsd_dalmatian 2y ago

ketralnis 2y ago
Maybe to give additional fans when the environment is so loud you can't hear them anyway
- guerrilla 2y ago
  Sounds like a recipe for Heisenbugs.
  - jayd16 2y ago
    Somewhat, although I guess the idea is still to keep perf flat and just throttle the cooling.
  - userbinator 2y ago
    I can certainly see things like this causing a lot of unintended consequences. "It speeds up when I play loud music" is going to confuse many who don't know about this "feature".
    - mensetmanusman 2y ago
      “If you play the music loud, your fps will increase!”
- bragr 2y ago
  Makes sense. Humans are really bad at perceiving the environmental noise floor. Our brains just tune it out, but it is has a huge impact on your perception of the loudness of fans that you've strapped to your face.
tommiegannert 2y ago
I can't speak for Apple, but for my Prusa 3D-printer: Worn/cheap ball bearings will make a rattling sound until they heat up and the balls expand. If you care about the auditory experience, using audio in the feedback loop makes some sense.
makeitdouble 2y ago
The goal is probably not to absolutely manage cooling but to focus on the audio experience and try to keep noise below some threshold. I think that's an interesting idea, even if not everyone might be happy with the tradeoff (comes down to how much you care about noise vs getting throttled), especially for a vr device.
- jfoster 2y ago
  It seems a mis-prioritization of the kind that makes me dislike Apple products. To avoid the imperfection of a bit of fan noise, throttle the entire experience. Great.
  - freehorse 2y ago
    It is a machine you literally have on your head. I have not tried it, but I can believe that it requires some different UX considerations than normal computers. I would definitely not like to hear fan noise vibrating through my head.
    - Guillaume86 2y ago
      Wait till you experience visual stutter in VR then...
      - andybak 2y ago
        In the old days, the device settings would allow the user to tune the trade-off to their own preferences. But current user design orthodoxy is that "settings are bad" to an extreme (I actually agree with the weaker formulation "too many settings are bad"... for some value of "many")
      - klausa 2y ago
        There's a reason why the Vision Pro has separate chip that handles the real-time passthrough from cameras (and bunch of other sensor-fusion stuff, AIUI).
hyperhopper 2y ago
The thread explains one possible reason why. You should read the link before commenting. The reason proposed is that if the environment is loud, you won't be bothered by additional noise from the fans.
- theon144 2y ago
  The post you're probably talking about was hidden under "Show Probable Spam" on my end.
- latexr 2y ago
  > You should read the link before commenting. Twitter doesn’t show threads to people who are not logged in (e.g. if you don’t have an account). Shaming people for not reading what they can’t see (or even know exists) is unfair. Using archival sites doesn’t work as a bypass like on newspaper sites. Not to mention people on Firefox, which from what I have read on HN might not even have access to it at all. Twitter links should probably be downranked on HN until (if/when) they return to being more accessible.
  - andybak 2y ago
    I had no idea Twitter was doing that. That sucks. However - I find that less onerous than a paywall and HN is mostly fine about those.
    - latexr 2y ago
      > I find that less onerous than a paywal With a paywall you know what you’re missing or not. With Twitter that’s harder to determine, which I’d argue is worse. But I wouldn’t say either of our opinions is objectively correct. > and HN is mostly fine about those. It is explicitely fine with paywalls which have workarounds. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
whyoh 2y ago
Because the RPM of a fan is not a 100% reliable indicator of its loudness. Sometimes a lower speed can even be louder than a higher one, because of certain resonances...
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  Presumably, knowing the fan you've installed into the device you've designed, you could map those noisy areas...
  - whyoh 2y ago
    Yes, that could work (it would need to be done for each fan individually, because of manufacturing variation). But it's still not guaranteed that the fan will keep working the same way in the future, after some use/deterioration or in untested conditions.

Why use mics for that if they have direct access to rpm of fans?

ketralnis 2y ago

Maybe to give additional fans when the environment is so loud you can't hear them anyway

guerrilla 2y ago
Sounds like a recipe for Heisenbugs.
- jayd16 2y ago
  Somewhat, although I guess the idea is still to keep perf flat and just throttle the cooling.
- userbinator 2y ago
  I can certainly see things like this causing a lot of unintended consequences. "It speeds up when I play loud music" is going to confuse many who don't know about this "feature".
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    “If you play the music loud, your fps will increase!”
bragr 2y ago
Makes sense. Humans are really bad at perceiving the environmental noise floor. Our brains just tune it out, but it is has a huge impact on your perception of the loudness of fans that you've strapped to your face.

tommiegannert 2y ago

I can't speak for Apple, but for my Prusa 3D-printer: Worn/cheap ball bearings will make a rattling sound until they heat up and the balls expand. If you care about the auditory experience, using audio in the feedback loop makes some sense.

makeitdouble 2y ago

The goal is probably not to absolutely manage cooling but to focus on the audio experience and try to keep noise below some threshold. I think that's an interesting idea, even if not everyone might be happy with the tradeoff (comes down to how much you care about noise vs getting throttled), especially for a vr device.

jfoster 2y ago
It seems a mis-prioritization of the kind that makes me dislike Apple products. To avoid the imperfection of a bit of fan noise, throttle the entire experience. Great.
- freehorse 2y ago
  It is a machine you literally have on your head. I have not tried it, but I can believe that it requires some different UX considerations than normal computers. I would definitely not like to hear fan noise vibrating through my head.
  - Guillaume86 2y ago
    Wait till you experience visual stutter in VR then...
    - andybak 2y ago
      In the old days, the device settings would allow the user to tune the trade-off to their own preferences. But current user design orthodoxy is that "settings are bad" to an extreme (I actually agree with the weaker formulation "too many settings are bad"... for some value of "many")
    - klausa 2y ago
      There's a reason why the Vision Pro has separate chip that handles the real-time passthrough from cameras (and bunch of other sensor-fusion stuff, AIUI).

hyperhopper 2y ago

The thread explains one possible reason why. You should read the link before commenting. The reason proposed is that if the environment is loud, you won't be bothered by additional noise from the fans.

theon144 2y ago
The post you're probably talking about was hidden under "Show Probable Spam" on my end.
latexr 2y ago
> You should read the link before commenting. Twitter doesn’t show threads to people who are not logged in (e.g. if you don’t have an account). Shaming people for not reading what they can’t see (or even know exists) is unfair. Using archival sites doesn’t work as a bypass like on newspaper sites. Not to mention people on Firefox, which from what I have read on HN might not even have access to it at all. Twitter links should probably be downranked on HN until (if/when) they return to being more accessible.
- andybak 2y ago
  I had no idea Twitter was doing that. That sucks. However - I find that less onerous than a paywall and HN is mostly fine about those.
  - latexr 2y ago
    > I find that less onerous than a paywal With a paywall you know what you’re missing or not. With Twitter that’s harder to determine, which I’d argue is worse. But I wouldn’t say either of our opinions is objectively correct. > and HN is mostly fine about those. It is explicitely fine with paywalls which have workarounds. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

whyoh 2y ago

Because the RPM of a fan is not a 100% reliable indicator of its loudness. Sometimes a lower speed can even be louder than a higher one, because of certain resonances...

FireBeyond 2y ago
Presumably, knowing the fan you've installed into the device you've designed, you could map those noisy areas...
- whyoh 2y ago
  Yes, that could work (it would need to be done for each fan individually, because of manufacturing variation). But it's still not guaranteed that the fan will keep working the same way in the future, after some use/deterioration or in untested conditions.