6 ms·

We Remember Noam Chomsky, the Intellectual and Moral Giant

51 points by ughitsaaron 2y ago

hybris_speedrun 2y ago
[flagged]
elproxy 2y ago
I am not sure his death is confirmed though. Apparently he had a new stroke.
- aborsy 2y ago
  He suffered a massive stroke last June, unfortunately https://www.medialens.org/2024/a-message-about-noam-chomsky-an-update/ https://www.medialens.org/2024/a-message-about-noam-chomsky-... https://tucson.com/news/local/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-after-massive-stroke/article_ca65b22e-28e9-11ef-875d-4b706ec11630.html https://tucson.com/news/local/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-afte... A new one since last week? Link?
  - hybris_speedrun 2y ago
    [dead]
    - sedev 2y ago
      That one (as I am seeing it now) cites the Jacobin article as a source, but the Jacobin article itself is fuzzy on sourcing.
- foldr 2y ago
  New Statesman has an obituary now too, so it seems pretty certain that he has died.
  - hybris_speedrun 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - foldr 2y ago
      It’s possible that they made a mistake. I just think it’s unlikely that they’d have published it without confirmation.
      - lilbaine 2y ago
        All articles have been removed. Except Jacobin.
        foldr 2y ago
        Fair enough. I’m surprised NS were that sloppy, but apologies for contributing to the misinformation.
        lilbaine 2y ago
        https://archive.ph/P35WA https://archive.ph/P35WA Archived link from the statesmen.
  - switch007 2y ago
    They deleted it
  - lilbaine 2y ago
    Yes the articles were taken down very shortly
  - tunnuz 2y ago
    It’s been taken down!
    - lilbaine 2y ago
- FStorm007 2y ago
  maybe misinformation IG
- feraloink 2y ago
  According to Steven Pinker (who has blocked me on Twitter), Chomsky is alive. https://x.com/sapinker/statu/sapinker/status/1803164570112126994 https://x.com/sapinker/statu/sapinker/status/180316457011212... I was too lazy to log out but could see this much from Google search. Pinker said, (28 minutes ago): "Reports today of Noam Chomsky's death (in Jacobin and New Statesman, since taken down) were greatly exaggerated. I have confirmation from..."
dang 2y ago
Recent and related: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40641361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40641361 - June 2024 (424 comments)
switch007 2y ago
EDIT: they deleted it https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2024/06/the-noam-chomsky-i-knew https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2024/06/the-noam-chomsky-... New Statesman saying he's died too
- andrewinardeer 2y ago
  Surprised his Wikipedia page has not been updated. Yet.
  - solardev 2y ago
    Tried to add the death, but other editors are still in disagreement. It's not solidly confirmed yet. I don't think either Jacobin or New Statesmen are reliable sources for this kind of news (they don't usually do breaking news like that). Debate about it on the talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead%3...
- wut42 2y ago
  New Statesman deleted it as well
toomuchtodo 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
- leobg 2y ago
  They have a discussion going on: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
leobg 2y ago
I had always had wanted to ask him if he didn’t think now that his critique of BF Skinner’s “Verbal Behavior” had been wrong after all, and that LLMs are the experimental proof of Skinner’s idea that simple conditioning can give rise to something that, to us, looks like intelligence. Now I’ll never know. (But maybe the two of them can have a discussion now in the afterlife, now that their worldly egos and public opinion are out of the way.)
- leto_ii 2y ago
  He has discussed this in recent interviews and talks e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/opinion/noam-chomsky-chatgpt-ai.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/opinion/noam-chomsky-chat... > his critique of BF Skinner’s “Verbal Behavior” had been wrong after all btw, this is in no way proven (or true imo).
  - foldr 2y ago
    I'd be fairly cautious in assuming that these more recent coauthored pieces by Chomsky represent his views very accurately. They're pretty crude by his standards and don't really read like his writing (though he may well have signed off on them in some sense).
    - leto_ii 2y ago
      Many interviews with him directly you can check out. Article is consistent with those interviews.
      - foldr 2y ago
        There is some overlap with the content of recent interviews, but only some. In particular, the fussing over what is or isn’t “true intelligence” comes from Watumull and isn’t consistent with Chomsky’s past comments on AI over several decades.
  - leobg 2y ago
    Skinner isn’t mentioned in the article.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bdeshi 2y ago
https://x.com/_pinheira/status/1803155896081518754 https://x.com/_pinheira/status/1803155896081518754 > Noam is alive. And well. His wife has just confirmed it
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Title of article reappeared with modification: Let’s Celebrate Noam Chomsky, the Intellectual and Moral Giant
disorg123 2y ago
https://x.com/safbf/status/1803154724415287513 https://x.com/safbf/status/1803154724415287513 Not dead "Shameful and sad that Valeria Chomsky had to deny news of Noam Chomsky’s death over the phone here in Brazil, because a bunch of places decided to publish pre-written obituaries and posts at the first online rumour."
aborsy 2y ago
Does anyone know why was he taken to Brazil? I know his wife is a Brazilian, but still. Perhaps medical costs? It’s a very sad news for many of us. Still, knowing what happens with a massive stroke, I think it’s in his best interest to go. It’s going to be horrible, and the situation with caregivers is even more difficult.
- cassianoleal 2y ago
  > Chomsky, 95, had been admitted to hospital in Brazil, where the couple resides https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/activist-noam-chomsky-stroke-wife-brazil-hospital-gaza-b1165245.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/activist-noam-chomsky-... He wasn't taken, he lives there according to the Standard. Good for him as well! It's an awesome place to be in. :)
  - aborsy 2y ago
    No, he was taken by a rental jet from US to Brazil.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      > Valeria Chomsky said via email that her 95-year-old husband is in a Sao Paulo hospital, where she took him on an ambulance jet with two nurses once he could more easily travel from the United States following the June 2023 stroke. The couple has had a residence there since 2015. https://apnews.com/article/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-stroke-recovery-brazil-4fb6782abf6a7b6d0bbb30cefa05cede https://apnews.com/article/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-stroke-... Seems that you're partially correct. The AP says he was taken on an ambulance jet, not a rental one (or perhaps it's a rental ambulance jet, I don't know). They also say this happened "once he could more easily travel from the United States following the June 2023 stroke". It sounds to me that they've been wanting to go back to Brazil since then. This may be because they live there and were keen to go back home; it could be because he has his regular doctors there who may be able to provide him with a better treatment; it may be that they would have better support (from his wife's family, for instance)... In any case, they live there so it stands to reason that they would want to be back as soon as it was feasible.
ughitsaaron 2y ago
My apologies. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/noam-chomskys-wife-reports-famed-linguists-death-false-111230880 https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/noam-chomskys-wife-r...
SpaceGlow 2y ago
The moral midget is still alive. Known Khmer Rouge fanboy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial?wpro...

51 points by ughitsaaron 2y ago

hybris_speedrun 2y ago

[flagged]

elproxy 2y ago

I am not sure his death is confirmed though. Apparently he had a new stroke.

aborsy 2y ago
He suffered a massive stroke last June, unfortunately https://www.medialens.org/2024/a-message-about-noam-chomsky-an-update/ https://www.medialens.org/2024/a-message-about-noam-chomsky-... https://tucson.com/news/local/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-after-massive-stroke/article_ca65b22e-28e9-11ef-875d-4b706ec11630.html https://tucson.com/news/local/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-afte... A new one since last week? Link?
- hybris_speedrun 2y ago
  [dead]
  - sedev 2y ago
    That one (as I am seeing it now) cites the Jacobin article as a source, but the Jacobin article itself is fuzzy on sourcing.
foldr 2y ago
New Statesman has an obituary now too, so it seems pretty certain that he has died.
- hybris_speedrun 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - foldr 2y ago
    It’s possible that they made a mistake. I just think it’s unlikely that they’d have published it without confirmation.
    - lilbaine 2y ago
      All articles have been removed. Except Jacobin.
      - foldr 2y ago
        Fair enough. I’m surprised NS were that sloppy, but apologies for contributing to the misinformation.
        lilbaine 2y ago
        https://archive.ph/P35WA https://archive.ph/P35WA Archived link from the statesmen.
- switch007 2y ago
  They deleted it
- lilbaine 2y ago
  Yes the articles were taken down very shortly
- tunnuz 2y ago
  It’s been taken down!
  - lilbaine 2y ago
FStorm007 2y ago
maybe misinformation IG
feraloink 2y ago
According to Steven Pinker (who has blocked me on Twitter), Chomsky is alive. https://x.com/sapinker/statu/sapinker/status/1803164570112126994 https://x.com/sapinker/statu/sapinker/status/180316457011212... I was too lazy to log out but could see this much from Google search. Pinker said, (28 minutes ago): "Reports today of Noam Chomsky's death (in Jacobin and New Statesman, since taken down) were greatly exaggerated. I have confirmation from..."

dang 2y ago

Recent and related: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40641361 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40641361 - June 2024 (424 comments)

switch007 2y ago

EDIT: they deleted it https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2024/06/the-noam-chomsky-i-knew https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2024/06/the-noam-chomsky-... New Statesman saying he's died too

andrewinardeer 2y ago
Surprised his Wikipedia page has not been updated. Yet.
- solardev 2y ago
  Tried to add the death, but other editors are still in disagreement. It's not solidly confirmed yet. I don't think either Jacobin or New Statesmen are reliable sources for this kind of news (they don't usually do breaking news like that). Debate about it on the talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead%3...
wut42 2y ago
New Statesman deleted it as well

toomuchtodo 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

leobg 2y ago
They have a discussion going on: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Noam_Chomsky#Is_he_dead?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

leobg 2y ago

I had always had wanted to ask him if he didn’t think now that his critique of BF Skinner’s “Verbal Behavior” had been wrong after all, and that LLMs are the experimental proof of Skinner’s idea that simple conditioning can give rise to something that, to us, looks like intelligence. Now I’ll never know. (But maybe the two of them can have a discussion now in the afterlife, now that their worldly egos and public opinion are out of the way.)

leto_ii 2y ago
He has discussed this in recent interviews and talks e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/opinion/noam-chomsky-chatgpt-ai.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/opinion/noam-chomsky-chat... > his critique of BF Skinner’s “Verbal Behavior” had been wrong after all btw, this is in no way proven (or true imo).
- foldr 2y ago
  I'd be fairly cautious in assuming that these more recent coauthored pieces by Chomsky represent his views very accurately. They're pretty crude by his standards and don't really read like his writing (though he may well have signed off on them in some sense).
  - leto_ii 2y ago
    Many interviews with him directly you can check out. Article is consistent with those interviews.
    - foldr 2y ago
      There is some overlap with the content of recent interviews, but only some. In particular, the fussing over what is or isn’t “true intelligence” comes from Watumull and isn’t consistent with Chomsky’s past comments on AI over several decades.
- leobg 2y ago
  Skinner isn’t mentioned in the article.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bdeshi 2y ago

https://x.com/_pinheira/status/1803155896081518754 https://x.com/_pinheira/status/1803155896081518754 > Noam is alive. And well. His wife has just confirmed it

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Title of article reappeared with modification: Let’s Celebrate Noam Chomsky, the Intellectual and Moral Giant

disorg123 2y ago

https://x.com/safbf/status/1803154724415287513 https://x.com/safbf/status/1803154724415287513 Not dead "Shameful and sad that Valeria Chomsky had to deny news of Noam Chomsky’s death over the phone here in Brazil, because a bunch of places decided to publish pre-written obituaries and posts at the first online rumour."

aborsy 2y ago

Does anyone know why was he taken to Brazil? I know his wife is a Brazilian, but still. Perhaps medical costs? It’s a very sad news for many of us. Still, knowing what happens with a massive stroke, I think it’s in his best interest to go. It’s going to be horrible, and the situation with caregivers is even more difficult.

cassianoleal 2y ago
> Chomsky, 95, had been admitted to hospital in Brazil, where the couple resides https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/activist-noam-chomsky-stroke-wife-brazil-hospital-gaza-b1165245.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/activist-noam-chomsky-... He wasn't taken, he lives there according to the Standard. Good for him as well! It's an awesome place to be in. :)
- aborsy 2y ago
  No, he was taken by a rental jet from US to Brazil.
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    > Valeria Chomsky said via email that her 95-year-old husband is in a Sao Paulo hospital, where she took him on an ambulance jet with two nurses once he could more easily travel from the United States following the June 2023 stroke. The couple has had a residence there since 2015. https://apnews.com/article/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-stroke-recovery-brazil-4fb6782abf6a7b6d0bbb30cefa05cede https://apnews.com/article/noam-chomsky-hospitalized-stroke-... Seems that you're partially correct. The AP says he was taken on an ambulance jet, not a rental one (or perhaps it's a rental ambulance jet, I don't know). They also say this happened "once he could more easily travel from the United States following the June 2023 stroke". It sounds to me that they've been wanting to go back to Brazil since then. This may be because they live there and were keen to go back home; it could be because he has his regular doctors there who may be able to provide him with a better treatment; it may be that they would have better support (from his wife's family, for instance)... In any case, they live there so it stands to reason that they would want to be back as soon as it was feasible.

ughitsaaron 2y ago

My apologies. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/noam-chomskys-wife-reports-famed-linguists-death-false-111230880 https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/noam-chomskys-wife-r...

SpaceGlow 2y ago

The moral midget is still alive. Known Khmer Rouge fanboy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial?wpro...