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I believe that no one should have to pay for medical care at the point of receiving it. This is what Taxes and government planning are for

by xs83 2y ago

nielsbot 2y ago
US is the only (advanced) economy where people have medical bankruptcy AFAIK.
_heimdall 2y ago
In concept I can totally get behind the idea. I lived in the Netherlands for a couple years and though I never had to go in for any serious treatment, I always heard good things from friends and neighbors there. In reality, at least in the US today, I don't trust our government to do this right. They're already way top friendly with the medical industry and have absolutely no idea what it means to plan finances. They waste a ton of tax dollars as-is and have no answer as to why we need taxes when they can literally create trillions in new money every year. On the medical side, my only caveat would be that I'd want a system that offers more than just modern, western medicine. Anyone that believes strongly in alternstive medicines should have their care covered as well, I'm not sure how that works in other countries that have socialized medical care today.
- jajko 2y ago
  > I'm not sure how that works in other countries that have socialized medical care today Acupuncture is paid by medical insurance in Switzerland for example, just another type of medical procedure in their books. Don't know rationale behind it, wikipedia says no clear evidence for it, but I know several people including doctors who report measurable positive differences on themselves or their patients, its just not an instant cure-it-all like some want it to be.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Thanks for filling in a few blanks for me! While living in the Netherlands I had a Swiss neighbor. I always appreciated how he was expected to vote on even fairly minor changes proposed by the Swiss government. Guess I'll add this to the long list of things I appreciate about the Swiss government and culture! Its always interesting to me when western modern medicine tries to scientifically validate alternative treatments that have been around for much longer. It's such a difficult thing to do, the two approaches are based on such drastically different approaches to health and the body that it really can be like trying to translate a book to English with a Latin dictionary.
  - TheCoelacanth 2y ago
    Acupuncture is pretty cheap compared to most medical procedures, so even if it's just an unusually effective placebo, it's still probably worth the cost.
- xs83 2y ago
  I think dismantling an existing system that is based on capitalism and is protected by the people rich enough to keep lobbying and getting kick backs will always be difficult. It would need to be started again completely. I dont think the US even has the concept of a public hospital does it?
  - 0xBDB 2y ago
    Yes, the U.S. has the concept of public hospitals, but they're unevenly distributed, let's say. Parkland in Dallas, where JFK died, is one. I pay property taxes separately in suburban Dallas / Fort Worth (Tarrant County) to my city, school district, and hospital district. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_hospitals_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_hospitals_in_th...
loceng 2y ago
Interesting. Would you care to explain how then in Canada - I'm Canadian - with our "free" healthcare system, I've had to spend over $800,000 in under a decade on medical treatments in the US? You don't seem to understand the pros and cons of both situations, otherwise you wouldn't be simply proposing a blanket "free for all!" Once you tell me your 100% foolproof solution for countering regulatory capture and industrial complexes, then you'll have my attention.
- morkalork 2y ago
  Can you explain how you've come to spend $800,000 on carr outside of Canada? Certainly if that was the case for everyone there, it would be an untenable situation.
  - loceng 2y ago
    It doesn't appear like you are aware of any of the ranking statistics. You are correct - it's quite untenable, especially with the newly 3 million new immigrants the current government in power has flooded Canada with in the last ~2 years alone; and that doesn't account for the 1.5 million international student visas, nor work visas given - in a relatively small population of now ~40 million. We spend the most per capita of G7 countries, and rank last of those on quality of care and service metrics. Try a thought exercise to brainstorm, reverse engineer, why that might be.
    - buffington 2y ago
      Are you saying immigration caused you to spend $800k for US based health care, as a Canadian? No appeals to thought exercises either. You're the authority on this. Tell HN how this isn't just some convoluted xenophobic rant.
      - xs83 2y ago
        He cant because thats exactly what it is. The UK NHS system is on its knees because the conservative government has started selling it out from under the people to guess - US companies. But all the gammons are spouting exactly the same as he is that its the "immigrants" causing it (even though Brexit was going to solve that problem - right?)

I believe that no one should have to pay for medical care at the point of receiving it. This is what Taxes and government planning are for

by xs83 2y ago

I believe that no one should have to pay for medical care at the point of receiving it. This is what Taxes and government planning are for

nielsbot 2y ago

US is the only (advanced) economy where people have medical bankruptcy AFAIK.

_heimdall 2y ago

In concept I can totally get behind the idea. I lived in the Netherlands for a couple years and though I never had to go in for any serious treatment, I always heard good things from friends and neighbors there. In reality, at least in the US today, I don't trust our government to do this right. They're already way top friendly with the medical industry and have absolutely no idea what it means to plan finances. They waste a ton of tax dollars as-is and have no answer as to why we need taxes when they can literally create trillions in new money every year. On the medical side, my only caveat would be that I'd want a system that offers more than just modern, western medicine. Anyone that believes strongly in alternstive medicines should have their care covered as well, I'm not sure how that works in other countries that have socialized medical care today.

jajko 2y ago
> I'm not sure how that works in other countries that have socialized medical care today Acupuncture is paid by medical insurance in Switzerland for example, just another type of medical procedure in their books. Don't know rationale behind it, wikipedia says no clear evidence for it, but I know several people including doctors who report measurable positive differences on themselves or their patients, its just not an instant cure-it-all like some want it to be.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Thanks for filling in a few blanks for me! While living in the Netherlands I had a Swiss neighbor. I always appreciated how he was expected to vote on even fairly minor changes proposed by the Swiss government. Guess I'll add this to the long list of things I appreciate about the Swiss government and culture! Its always interesting to me when western modern medicine tries to scientifically validate alternative treatments that have been around for much longer. It's such a difficult thing to do, the two approaches are based on such drastically different approaches to health and the body that it really can be like trying to translate a book to English with a Latin dictionary.
- TheCoelacanth 2y ago
  Acupuncture is pretty cheap compared to most medical procedures, so even if it's just an unusually effective placebo, it's still probably worth the cost.
xs83 2y ago
I think dismantling an existing system that is based on capitalism and is protected by the people rich enough to keep lobbying and getting kick backs will always be difficult. It would need to be started again completely. I dont think the US even has the concept of a public hospital does it?
- 0xBDB 2y ago
  Yes, the U.S. has the concept of public hospitals, but they're unevenly distributed, let's say. Parkland in Dallas, where JFK died, is one. I pay property taxes separately in suburban Dallas / Fort Worth (Tarrant County) to my city, school district, and hospital district. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_hospitals_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_hospitals_in_th...

loceng 2y ago

Interesting. Would you care to explain how then in Canada - I'm Canadian - with our "free" healthcare system, I've had to spend over $800,000 in under a decade on medical treatments in the US? You don't seem to understand the pros and cons of both situations, otherwise you wouldn't be simply proposing a blanket "free for all!" Once you tell me your 100% foolproof solution for countering regulatory capture and industrial complexes, then you'll have my attention.

morkalork 2y ago
Can you explain how you've come to spend $800,000 on carr outside of Canada? Certainly if that was the case for everyone there, it would be an untenable situation.
- loceng 2y ago
  It doesn't appear like you are aware of any of the ranking statistics. You are correct - it's quite untenable, especially with the newly 3 million new immigrants the current government in power has flooded Canada with in the last ~2 years alone; and that doesn't account for the 1.5 million international student visas, nor work visas given - in a relatively small population of now ~40 million. We spend the most per capita of G7 countries, and rank last of those on quality of care and service metrics. Try a thought exercise to brainstorm, reverse engineer, why that might be.
  - buffington 2y ago
    Are you saying immigration caused you to spend $800k for US based health care, as a Canadian? No appeals to thought exercises either. You're the authority on this. Tell HN how this isn't just some convoluted xenophobic rant.
    - xs83 2y ago
      He cant because thats exactly what it is. The UK NHS system is on its knees because the conservative government has started selling it out from under the people to guess - US companies. But all the gammons are spouting exactly the same as he is that its the "immigrants" causing it (even though Brexit was going to solve that problem - right?)