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New GitHub Organization for the Swift Project

154 points by inickt 2y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
I really wish this now makes Swift worthwhile outside of the Apple ecosystem. A bit like Go.
- bsaul 2y ago
  That would be great indeed. I’ve sayed this a few times, but i believe swift’s only chance to become mainstream is now, and only by growing outside of apple.
- tmpz22 2y ago
  It was talked about in the Platform keynote (not the main keynote) - they're doing a lot of crossplatform work, off the top of my head: * Enhancement of VSCode support (and any editor that integrates LSP) * Increasing supported linux and windows platforms * Increasing support for constrained environments (embeded? dunno) * Continued support of community products like Vapor (web framework)
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  Why would that make it more worthwhile? What are the compelling reasons to use Swift instead of Go?
  - jen20 2y ago
    Sum types is sufficient reason alone.
  - codetrotter 2y ago
    For example if you already know, and use, Swift because you are an app developer who’s been developing apps for iOS, iPadOS, or macOS, then improved cross-platform support would be very desirable.
  - h12nz 2y ago
    Because it has much nicer ergonomics. Why would anyone create a modern language with nil.
  - citrus1330 2y ago
    It's a better language.
bobajeff 2y ago
>This change will allow Swift to expand its reach to more platforms and use cases, sparking fresh possibilities and broadening Swift’s impact across the technology landscape. How does having a GitHub organization tangibly impact the implied goal of making Swift more impactful outside of apples devices?
- NewJazz 2y ago
  Having non-apple members in the language organization in GitHub seems like a nice improvement.
- threecheese 2y ago
  It does sound a bit silly on its face; apparently the repositories are in Apple’s org which limits access to GitHub-isms to members of Apple GH teams, and so it sounds reasonable if their goal is to extend the community beyond those limits on the GH platform.
- pudwallabee 2y ago
  [dead]
- sunshowers 2y ago
  Beyond the pure signaling value, I would imagine Apple has internal GitHub tooling which maintains particular invariants for repos hosted under github.com/apple. Those invariants can potentially be relaxed or discarded altogether for a different org much easier. (Special-casing particular repos within the repos is technically possible, but (a) is harder and (b) probably runs into policy issues with legal.)
- talldayo 2y ago
  They're certainly wearing their heart on their sleeve there.
- lima 2y ago
  GitHub org permissions aren't very granular, especially with an org that is tied to enterprise SSO. Makes it hard to grant certain permission to outside members.
tosh 2y ago
They grow up so fast. July 2010 started, June 2014 publicly released (!) feels like yesterday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_(programming_language)
songbird23 2y ago
hope this works out! i really wanna work with swift outside xcode, i want it in vim
- acedTrex 2y ago
  they showed swift in neovim in the keynote when they talked about LSP support
- mdhb 2y ago
  I got to be honest every time I look over to the Swift/iOS development ecosystem I’m shocked at the amount of nonsense they have to deal with. - Xcode is terrible - Documentation is barely existent - you can’t really reuse your code in any other context - you have to pay them money to even release your software - they steal 30% of your revenue - they reserve the right to shut you down at any point, for any reason and provide almost zero recourse. I get why people had to use it historically but it seems like a really bad choice to try and build any kind of reliable future on top of in 2024.
  - jshen 2y ago
    What does this have to do with swift?
    - mdhb 2y ago
      It’s at the core of the ecosystem and has basically zero other well supported use cases or successes to point to.
      - frizlab 2y ago
        That is absolutely and resolutely untrue.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    > Documentation is barely existent Depends on the thing. And there is a large community with examples online, which helps. > you can’t really reuse your code in any other context Not everyone cares. If I’m only targeting an iOS app the fact the code doesn’t run on Android or Windows isn’t a problem for me. > you have to pay them money to even release your software On Apple’s App Store, sure. Or if you want your stuff signed. If you want to release open source or don’t mind shipping unsigned stuff it’s free free free. > they steal 30% of your revenue > they reserve the right to shut you down at any point, for any reason and provide almost zero recourse. Only if you’re in their App Store or want your stuff signed. > I get why people had to use it historically but it seems like a really bad choice to try and build any kind of reliable future on top of in 2024. The bargain is the same as it ever was. I’m OK with it. I made stuff in Xcode for my Mac just for me for a long time without hassle or paying a cent. The costs only cost if you want to distribute pre-built binaries to others.
bla3 2y ago
Does this mean Swift will finally be built on top of public LLVM instead of on top of Apple's fork of it?
- frizlab 2y ago
  I read LLM at first and was confused for a second
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
zefhous 2y ago
I extremely excited about the future of Swift and being able to use it in new places like Embedded Swift. As an iOS developer I’ve been getting into some firmware stuff on ESP-32. It’s my first time writing C++ and while it’s been better than I expected, I really miss Swift and especially the safety it brings.

154 points by inickt 2y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago

I really wish this now makes Swift worthwhile outside of the Apple ecosystem. A bit like Go.

bsaul 2y ago
That would be great indeed. I’ve sayed this a few times, but i believe swift’s only chance to become mainstream is now, and only by growing outside of apple.
tmpz22 2y ago
It was talked about in the Platform keynote (not the main keynote) - they're doing a lot of crossplatform work, off the top of my head: * Enhancement of VSCode support (and any editor that integrates LSP) * Increasing supported linux and windows platforms * Increasing support for constrained environments (embeded? dunno) * Continued support of community products like Vapor (web framework)
candiddevmike 2y ago
Why would that make it more worthwhile? What are the compelling reasons to use Swift instead of Go?
- jen20 2y ago
  Sum types is sufficient reason alone.
- codetrotter 2y ago
  For example if you already know, and use, Swift because you are an app developer who’s been developing apps for iOS, iPadOS, or macOS, then improved cross-platform support would be very desirable.
- h12nz 2y ago
  Because it has much nicer ergonomics. Why would anyone create a modern language with nil.
- citrus1330 2y ago
  It's a better language.

bobajeff 2y ago

>This change will allow Swift to expand its reach to more platforms and use cases, sparking fresh possibilities and broadening Swift’s impact across the technology landscape. How does having a GitHub organization tangibly impact the implied goal of making Swift more impactful outside of apples devices?

NewJazz 2y ago
Having non-apple members in the language organization in GitHub seems like a nice improvement.
threecheese 2y ago
It does sound a bit silly on its face; apparently the repositories are in Apple’s org which limits access to GitHub-isms to members of Apple GH teams, and so it sounds reasonable if their goal is to extend the community beyond those limits on the GH platform.
pudwallabee 2y ago
[dead]
sunshowers 2y ago
Beyond the pure signaling value, I would imagine Apple has internal GitHub tooling which maintains particular invariants for repos hosted under github.com/apple. Those invariants can potentially be relaxed or discarded altogether for a different org much easier. (Special-casing particular repos within the repos is technically possible, but (a) is harder and (b) probably runs into policy issues with legal.)
talldayo 2y ago
They're certainly wearing their heart on their sleeve there.
lima 2y ago
GitHub org permissions aren't very granular, especially with an org that is tied to enterprise SSO. Makes it hard to grant certain permission to outside members.

tosh 2y ago

They grow up so fast. July 2010 started, June 2014 publicly released (!) feels like yesterday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_(programming_language)

songbird23 2y ago

hope this works out! i really wanna work with swift outside xcode, i want it in vim

acedTrex 2y ago
they showed swift in neovim in the keynote when they talked about LSP support
mdhb 2y ago
I got to be honest every time I look over to the Swift/iOS development ecosystem I’m shocked at the amount of nonsense they have to deal with. - Xcode is terrible - Documentation is barely existent - you can’t really reuse your code in any other context - you have to pay them money to even release your software - they steal 30% of your revenue - they reserve the right to shut you down at any point, for any reason and provide almost zero recourse. I get why people had to use it historically but it seems like a really bad choice to try and build any kind of reliable future on top of in 2024.
- jshen 2y ago
  What does this have to do with swift?
  - mdhb 2y ago
    It’s at the core of the ecosystem and has basically zero other well supported use cases or successes to point to.
    - frizlab 2y ago
      That is absolutely and resolutely untrue.
- MBCook 2y ago
  > Documentation is barely existent Depends on the thing. And there is a large community with examples online, which helps. > you can’t really reuse your code in any other context Not everyone cares. If I’m only targeting an iOS app the fact the code doesn’t run on Android or Windows isn’t a problem for me. > you have to pay them money to even release your software On Apple’s App Store, sure. Or if you want your stuff signed. If you want to release open source or don’t mind shipping unsigned stuff it’s free free free. > they steal 30% of your revenue > they reserve the right to shut you down at any point, for any reason and provide almost zero recourse. Only if you’re in their App Store or want your stuff signed. > I get why people had to use it historically but it seems like a really bad choice to try and build any kind of reliable future on top of in 2024. The bargain is the same as it ever was. I’m OK with it. I made stuff in Xcode for my Mac just for me for a long time without hassle or paying a cent. The costs only cost if you want to distribute pre-built binaries to others.

bla3 2y ago

Does this mean Swift will finally be built on top of public LLVM instead of on top of Apple's fork of it?

frizlab 2y ago
I read LLM at first and was confused for a second

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

zefhous 2y ago

I extremely excited about the future of Swift and being able to use it in new places like Embedded Swift. As an iOS developer I’ve been getting into some firmware stuff on ESP-32. It’s my first time writing C++ and while it’s been better than I expected, I really miss Swift and especially the safety it brings.