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It's because companies don't want capable, experienced or well-equipped. They want genius and it is really hard to test for genius. Granted, almost nobody that

It's because companies don't want capable, experienced or well-equipped. They want genius and it is really hard to test for genius. Granted, almost nobody that gets through any process is an actual genius....

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
It's because you have to go through a lengthy process to become a pilot - and tech companies want to be able to hire anyone regardless of training. Combine that with the fact that the upper bound on pay for SWEs is considerably higher than pilots...
debacle 2y ago
I have never needed to hire a genius in the last 12 years. In fact, often times I've had to pass on candidates that were overqualified.
duped 2y ago
I'd say it's the exact opposite. There are hordes of unqualified people applying to every software dev role imaginable regardless of what you put in the job description or requirements. The tests are there because people are good at lying but bad at faking skills.
- rachofsunshine 2y ago
  Seriously, if you've never hired before, you have no idea how bad this can get. Here's [1] our practice coding problem. It's quite similar to the one we use on our interview, and not too far from the one Triplebyte used in the past (ours is tuned to be slightly harder at the beginning and slightly easier at the end). The vast majority of candidates, even with some reasonable pre-filtering, do not get past the first step. A very non-trivial number would not even get that far. [1] https://www.otherbranch.com/practice-coding-problem https://www.otherbranch.com/practice-coding-problem
  - stackskipton 2y ago
    I have and you are right, it's terrible. However, I'm coming from Ops side of the house so my knowledge on Dev Hiring is talking to them and making sure they are not going to launch LedgerStore without talking to us first. Ops I'm more experienced with. However, looking at Other Branch example test, it's another data structure question which I would totally bomb. Is this really the end all be all to dev hiring? If they can't do Data Structures, are they worthless to Silicon Valley companies? I'm honestly stumped because we get dev candidates that crash and burn with Fizzbuzz or our REST API test. I MUST KNOW.
    - rachofsunshine 2y ago
      You consider that a "data structure question"? Honest question - I would (do) characterize it as a sort of "fizzbuzz+" that is deliberately NOT data-structure-y, and I'm surprised by this response. Can you give an example of short coding tasks you would consider not data-structure-y? (For the record, we do ask about DBs and system design in other sections of the interview. The coding is one portion of three for the interview as a whole.)
      - stackskipton 2y ago
        Minesweeper is all about storing data about the board and displaying the numbers is all about running through data. Seems very data structurey to me but maybe that's non heavy dev side coming through. Maybe I'm just thinking too much problem, overloaded my small attention brain and misread it. I wouldn't call Fizzbuzz data structure-y however. I'm also mostly outsider looking in. Never worked at FAANG and working with YC companies, I come on much later and tends to be more keeping the lights on and stopping the duct tape rocket from exploding.
        josephg 2y ago
        I disagree. Minesweeper doesn’t require anything more exotic than a 2d array of enums. This is bread and butter stuff that you’ll run into in 99% of programs. If someone doesn't know how to use their language’s lists, enums and structs, I don’t think they know the language yet. A “data structure problem” would involve more exotic data structures, usually of the kind the candidate has to implement themselves. For example, b-trees, heaps, skip lists, and so on. The reason a lot of people don’t like custom data structure questions is that they come up rarely in most people’s jobs. Lists, structs and enums on the other hand are used everywhere. Your programming job will almost certainly require you to understand them.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

It's because you have to go through a lengthy process to become a pilot - and tech companies want to be able to hire anyone regardless of training. Combine that with the fact that the upper bound on pay for SWEs is considerably higher than pilots...

debacle 2y ago

I have never needed to hire a genius in the last 12 years. In fact, often times I've had to pass on candidates that were overqualified.

duped 2y ago

I'd say it's the exact opposite. There are hordes of unqualified people applying to every software dev role imaginable regardless of what you put in the job description or requirements. The tests are there because people are good at lying but bad at faking skills.

rachofsunshine 2y ago
Seriously, if you've never hired before, you have no idea how bad this can get. Here's [1] our practice coding problem. It's quite similar to the one we use on our interview, and not too far from the one Triplebyte used in the past (ours is tuned to be slightly harder at the beginning and slightly easier at the end). The vast majority of candidates, even with some reasonable pre-filtering, do not get past the first step. A very non-trivial number would not even get that far. [1] https://www.otherbranch.com/practice-coding-problem https://www.otherbranch.com/practice-coding-problem
- stackskipton 2y ago
  I have and you are right, it's terrible. However, I'm coming from Ops side of the house so my knowledge on Dev Hiring is talking to them and making sure they are not going to launch LedgerStore without talking to us first. Ops I'm more experienced with. However, looking at Other Branch example test, it's another data structure question which I would totally bomb. Is this really the end all be all to dev hiring? If they can't do Data Structures, are they worthless to Silicon Valley companies? I'm honestly stumped because we get dev candidates that crash and burn with Fizzbuzz or our REST API test. I MUST KNOW.
  - rachofsunshine 2y ago
    You consider that a "data structure question"? Honest question - I would (do) characterize it as a sort of "fizzbuzz+" that is deliberately NOT data-structure-y, and I'm surprised by this response. Can you give an example of short coding tasks you would consider not data-structure-y? (For the record, we do ask about DBs and system design in other sections of the interview. The coding is one portion of three for the interview as a whole.)
    - stackskipton 2y ago
      Minesweeper is all about storing data about the board and displaying the numbers is all about running through data. Seems very data structurey to me but maybe that's non heavy dev side coming through. Maybe I'm just thinking too much problem, overloaded my small attention brain and misread it. I wouldn't call Fizzbuzz data structure-y however. I'm also mostly outsider looking in. Never worked at FAANG and working with YC companies, I come on much later and tends to be more keeping the lights on and stopping the duct tape rocket from exploding.
      - josephg 2y ago
        I disagree. Minesweeper doesn’t require anything more exotic than a 2d array of enums. This is bread and butter stuff that you’ll run into in 99% of programs. If someone doesn't know how to use their language’s lists, enums and structs, I don’t think they know the language yet. A “data structure problem” would involve more exotic data structures, usually of the kind the candidate has to implement themselves. For example, b-trees, heaps, skip lists, and so on. The reason a lot of people don’t like custom data structure questions is that they come up rarely in most people’s jobs. Lists, structs and enums on the other hand are used everywhere. Your programming job will almost certainly require you to understand them.