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If their funding source went under then I imagine they would start another one or try to get picked up by some larger organization like Linux Foundation or SPI.

If their funding source went under then I imagine they would start another one or try to get picked up by some larger organization like Linux Foundation or SPI. So no I don't think it would be that much of a problem. >but it's nice that you can have your opinion, while mine is considered void. It's perfectly fine to not like GNOME but wishing for them to be destroyed is a hostile and destructive opinion. If you don't want negative reactions then please try to recognize when that happens and just don't say those things. I don't wish that your preferred desktop get destroyed, is it too much to ask for you to stop wishing that upon me? I mean, come on. Of course there is a repeating pattern if you insist on saying nasty things and then you find people always get upset at you. What did you expect would happen?

BoredPositron 2y ago
Fifteen years ago, I wasn't hostile and I am not hostile now. However, now I really don't care about Gnome at all. As I mentioned, I wouldn't mind if they went under. That's not wishing for their downfall; it's simply indifference. You need to work on your reading comprehension because you're twisting everyone's words in your comments, not just mine.
- crashdancer 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    First, it seems you're still trying to twist my words. I wrote, "Overall, I truly believe they did a disservice to the whole Linux Desktop and the community over the last 15 years." This is my opinion, and I'm entitled to express it. Just as you are entitled to your own. This is not an attack; it's simply how I feel about the project. You can either voice your own opinion or try to convince me that I am wrong. However, instead of doing that, you are dismissing my opinion, attacking me personally, and resorting to psychological manipulation. When I said GNOME did a disservice, I was expressing my personal frustration and disappointment with the direction the project has taken over the years. This doesn't mean I wish harm upon the developers or the community. It's more about my disillusionment with the choices made, which I feel haven't aligned with my needs or the needs of many others in the Linux community. Second, indifference means I no longer have a vested interest in the project's success or failure. It's not the same as actively wishing for its downfall. My comment was intended to convey that I have moved on and am looking towards other projects that better meet my needs. I appreciate that you enjoy GNOME and have had a positive experience with it. Everyone's preferences and experiences are valid, and it's okay to have differing opinions. However, it's crucial to avoid assuming malicious intent when someone voices criticism. Lastly, comparing my comment to a personal attack on my GitHub stars isn't quite the same. Open-source projects thrive on feedback, both positive and negative. Through these discussions, developers can gauge user sentiment and make informed decisions. It seems that your feelings about "my desktop" and your emotional investment in GNOME are clouding your judgment, preventing a balanced perspective. If this is the sort of interaction people have with gnome enthusiasts or developers (whatever you are with your throwaway account) you can see why most people don't like to work with the community you are representing here.
    - crashdancer 2y ago
      > I was expressing my personal frustration and disappointment I understood that but that's different from saying everyone is being done a disservice. When you say that, what you're actually doing is accusing them of doing mass harm to the community -- I hope you can see how that's a serious accusation that's separate from your personal frustrations. >Open-source projects thrive on feedback, both positive and negative. It's through these discussions that developers can gauge user sentiment and make informed decisions. The feedback has to be structured in the correct way so developers can prioritize issues and turn it into a development plan. If it's just complaining about attitudes and making generalized statements, or constantly trying to renegotiate the direction of the whole project, that stuff doesn't help. >It seems that your feelings about "my desktop" and your emotional investment in gnome are clouding your judgment, preventing a balanced perspective. I don't have an investment any more than anyone else who just uses Linux for work/hobbies and is more or less fine with it, actually I probably have much less investment (both financial and personal) than the stereotypical techie who buys a new iPhone or Tesla or something and gets really into it. >If this is the sort of interaction people have with gnome enthusiasts or developers (whatever you are with your throwaway account) you can see why most people don't like to work with the community you are representing here. Please notice that you're demonstrating extreme prejudice and creating a vicious cycle here: someone makes some negative comments, I lightly push back on them, then somehow not only am I the bad guy but suddenly I've been elected as representative for the entire community and the entire community becomes responsible for my actions too! The subtext here is that I just shouldn't say anything or express my opinions at all because by the simple act of doing that, all the past disagreements and flamewars going back decades are now my fault too!
      - BoredPositron 2y ago
        > The feedback has to be structured in the correct way so developers can prioritize issues and turn it into a development plan. If it's just complaining about attitudes and making generalized statements, or constantly trying to renegotiate the direction of the whole project, that stuff doesn't help. Selective absorption of criticism has probably steered gnome to where they are now. Especially if you are talking about the form... akin to the meticulousness of a grammar enthusiast. Since we are on a forum and not a bug tracker or feature request list, the feedback here tends to be more generalized. Also your focus on the form and the distinction between the GNOME Desktop and the GNOME Foundation is deflective when we are primarily talking about user satisfaction for which you made no argument at all besides your personal anecdotes. Why is GNOME considered so great? Why are 8 of the most downloaded/popular extensions designed to rectify the bad decisions made by the GNOME development team? Why are there countless forks? These are all points you conveniently ignored or decided not to engage with. You went for the low hanging fruit. > Please notice that you're demonstrating extreme prejudice and creating a vicious cycle here: someone makes some negative comments, I lightly push back on them, then somehow not only am I the bad guy but suddenly I've been elected as representative for the entire community and the entire community becomes responsible for my actions too! The subtext here is that I just shouldn't say anything or express my opinions at all because now all the past disagreements and flamewars are now my fault too! It's not prejudice; it's a consistent reaction from multiple people in this thread to your comments. You might want to reflect on why that is and consider how your responses might be perceived. I am also only engaging with you in this specific subthread, and not elsewhere. Please refrain from distorting the facts to strengthen your argument. No one is suggesting that you represent the entire GNOME community—just that your behavior reflects poorly on its less favorable aspects. You are entitled to your opinions, but no one is obligated to agree with them, just as you don't have to agree with mine. If you truly believe I’m not entitled to my opinion that GNOME has, overall, done a disservice to the Linux Desktop and its community over the past 15 years, then please, enlighten me: What would be an acceptable way to express this sentiment while maintaining the same level of concern?

BoredPositron 2y ago

Fifteen years ago, I wasn't hostile and I am not hostile now. However, now I really don't care about Gnome at all. As I mentioned, I wouldn't mind if they went under. That's not wishing for their downfall; it's simply indifference. You need to work on your reading comprehension because you're twisting everyone's words in your comments, not just mine.

crashdancer 2y ago
[flagged]
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  First, it seems you're still trying to twist my words. I wrote, "Overall, I truly believe they did a disservice to the whole Linux Desktop and the community over the last 15 years." This is my opinion, and I'm entitled to express it. Just as you are entitled to your own. This is not an attack; it's simply how I feel about the project. You can either voice your own opinion or try to convince me that I am wrong. However, instead of doing that, you are dismissing my opinion, attacking me personally, and resorting to psychological manipulation. When I said GNOME did a disservice, I was expressing my personal frustration and disappointment with the direction the project has taken over the years. This doesn't mean I wish harm upon the developers or the community. It's more about my disillusionment with the choices made, which I feel haven't aligned with my needs or the needs of many others in the Linux community. Second, indifference means I no longer have a vested interest in the project's success or failure. It's not the same as actively wishing for its downfall. My comment was intended to convey that I have moved on and am looking towards other projects that better meet my needs. I appreciate that you enjoy GNOME and have had a positive experience with it. Everyone's preferences and experiences are valid, and it's okay to have differing opinions. However, it's crucial to avoid assuming malicious intent when someone voices criticism. Lastly, comparing my comment to a personal attack on my GitHub stars isn't quite the same. Open-source projects thrive on feedback, both positive and negative. Through these discussions, developers can gauge user sentiment and make informed decisions. It seems that your feelings about "my desktop" and your emotional investment in GNOME are clouding your judgment, preventing a balanced perspective. If this is the sort of interaction people have with gnome enthusiasts or developers (whatever you are with your throwaway account) you can see why most people don't like to work with the community you are representing here.
  - crashdancer 2y ago
    > I was expressing my personal frustration and disappointment I understood that but that's different from saying everyone is being done a disservice. When you say that, what you're actually doing is accusing them of doing mass harm to the community -- I hope you can see how that's a serious accusation that's separate from your personal frustrations. >Open-source projects thrive on feedback, both positive and negative. It's through these discussions that developers can gauge user sentiment and make informed decisions. The feedback has to be structured in the correct way so developers can prioritize issues and turn it into a development plan. If it's just complaining about attitudes and making generalized statements, or constantly trying to renegotiate the direction of the whole project, that stuff doesn't help. >It seems that your feelings about "my desktop" and your emotional investment in gnome are clouding your judgment, preventing a balanced perspective. I don't have an investment any more than anyone else who just uses Linux for work/hobbies and is more or less fine with it, actually I probably have much less investment (both financial and personal) than the stereotypical techie who buys a new iPhone or Tesla or something and gets really into it. >If this is the sort of interaction people have with gnome enthusiasts or developers (whatever you are with your throwaway account) you can see why most people don't like to work with the community you are representing here. Please notice that you're demonstrating extreme prejudice and creating a vicious cycle here: someone makes some negative comments, I lightly push back on them, then somehow not only am I the bad guy but suddenly I've been elected as representative for the entire community and the entire community becomes responsible for my actions too! The subtext here is that I just shouldn't say anything or express my opinions at all because by the simple act of doing that, all the past disagreements and flamewars going back decades are now my fault too!
    - BoredPositron 2y ago
      > The feedback has to be structured in the correct way so developers can prioritize issues and turn it into a development plan. If it's just complaining about attitudes and making generalized statements, or constantly trying to renegotiate the direction of the whole project, that stuff doesn't help. Selective absorption of criticism has probably steered gnome to where they are now. Especially if you are talking about the form... akin to the meticulousness of a grammar enthusiast. Since we are on a forum and not a bug tracker or feature request list, the feedback here tends to be more generalized. Also your focus on the form and the distinction between the GNOME Desktop and the GNOME Foundation is deflective when we are primarily talking about user satisfaction for which you made no argument at all besides your personal anecdotes. Why is GNOME considered so great? Why are 8 of the most downloaded/popular extensions designed to rectify the bad decisions made by the GNOME development team? Why are there countless forks? These are all points you conveniently ignored or decided not to engage with. You went for the low hanging fruit. > Please notice that you're demonstrating extreme prejudice and creating a vicious cycle here: someone makes some negative comments, I lightly push back on them, then somehow not only am I the bad guy but suddenly I've been elected as representative for the entire community and the entire community becomes responsible for my actions too! The subtext here is that I just shouldn't say anything or express my opinions at all because now all the past disagreements and flamewars are now my fault too! It's not prejudice; it's a consistent reaction from multiple people in this thread to your comments. You might want to reflect on why that is and consider how your responses might be perceived. I am also only engaging with you in this specific subthread, and not elsewhere. Please refrain from distorting the facts to strengthen your argument. No one is suggesting that you represent the entire GNOME community—just that your behavior reflects poorly on its less favorable aspects. You are entitled to your opinions, but no one is obligated to agree with them, just as you don't have to agree with mine. If you truly believe I’m not entitled to my opinion that GNOME has, overall, done a disservice to the Linux Desktop and its community over the past 15 years, then please, enlighten me: What would be an acceptable way to express this sentiment while maintaining the same level of concern?