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The reason you aren't getting any feedback from GNOME developers is because this is a huge long rant without any real new information in it. The developers are

The reason you aren't getting any feedback from GNOME developers is because this is a huge long rant without any real new information in it. The developers are already aware of what bugs are present and what features are missing. If it was easy to fix all the bugs and replace the extension system, they would have done it already. If you don't like GNOME's design then just don't use it, it's not possible to change the entire design of the whole system every time one person has a problem with it. There won't be any official theming where they support changing application themes to whatever you want. That is and will always be a nasty hack -- the entire idea is flawed and conflicts with the idea of GNOME, which is to have a complete platform with a consistent look and behavior. It's impossible to have that and also have full theming capability at the same time, those two ideas are the opposite. IMO you should give up on that or you will be more disappointed in the future. At one time I too used to think it was possible but I gave it up when I realized it just isn't technically feasible.

Raxelgrande 2y ago
Thank you, i will completely ditch GNOME and warn everyone who uses or is interested in Linux about it. Feedback to developers is useful, even if it's on a ranty way, with good reason, those bugs are nasty. They should use the accessibility funds to fix them as some can be considered accessibility problems (the scrolling one). It's also easy for the developers and contributors to answer well, or at least give some kind of answer (what happened in my GNOME forums post, im just a bit sad it didn't get better). Every time i have a question regarding the upcoming COSMIC or something Pop!_OS related, someone at System76 answers and it feels very welcoming. Regarding theming, every big OS has AT LEAST accent color selection, all but GNOME. Edit: I did provide information, you can find sources for nearly everything i talked about. My post on EndeavourOS' forums has more information.
- crashdancer 2y ago
  >warn everyone who uses or is interested in Linux about it See, I think now you are being too overly dramatic. It's not that bad, I haven't encountered the scrolling bug in a long time. And let's not pretend that Cosmic or KDE or XFCE (or anything else) has no bugs or missing features. >Feedback to developers is useful, even if it's on a ranty way, No it really isn't. You can rant to your friends but please don't rant at developers, it's never wanted. Would you like it if someone came into your workplace and ranted at you while you're trying to work? >It's also easy for the developers and contributors to answer well, or at least give some kind of answer Not if your first interaction with them is to post a several page long essay full of rants and demands. For any open source project (not just GNOME) I recommend to be nice and talk about one issue at a time. Start with simple and short bug reports or questions. At the end always ask "is there anything I can do to help?" If there is already a bug report then be patient and don't nag them asking when it's going to be done. Do everything you can to make it easy and enjoyable for them to respond to your question. Do not blame anyone for being slow. Doing all these things greatly increases the chances of getting a response. If there is still no response, see this page for what to do: https://boyter.org/posts/the-three-f-s-of-open-source/ https://boyter.org/posts/the-three-f-s-of-open-source/ >Regarding theming, every big OS has AT LEAST accent color selection Currently that's being worked on. >I did provide information, you can find sources for nearly everything i talked about. My post on EndeavourOS' forums has more information. I looked, it's all old information for the developers. They know all those things already. These bugs have already been discussed many times, they know users are unhappy with them.
fl0ki 2y ago
I'm not GP but: > If you don't like GNOME's design then just don't use it, I don't, but for many years GNOME has been in a position where it can't use this excuse any more. GNOME is most people's first experience of a Linux desktop. These days, more people than ever are giving Linux a try, for various reasons not relevant to this discussion. Most of those people will use GNOME first because it's the default for many distros, and often recommended for its simplicity even when people do have a choice. Now GNOME could take the feedback from users that give it, and start to earn the position it takes in the ecosystem. Instead GNOME has been infamous for many years of actively dismissing user issues. If you have an issue with GNOME and you search for it online, not only are you likely to find it's a known and often long-standing issue, you're likely to find it being either closed or ignored so you know there's no point even trying to file it again. An experienced Linux desktop user might just shrug and move on to something else. A first-time Linux desktop user can be forgiven for thinking that if this is the experience they have with the most famously user-friendly DE, then the Linux desktop as a whole just isn't for them. GNOME's attitude towards user issue reports is hurting the Linux desktop as a whole, especially early in the adoption pipeline where the leverage of damage is greatest. > The developers are already aware of what bugs are present and what features are missing. Of course the developers are aware what bugs are present, users have been filing them for years, they just don't get resolved. In some cases features already existed and were actively removed with no adequate workaround; and no, extensions as they currently exist are NOT an adequate workaround. I'm not saying it's easy to fix, I'm saying when the state of extensions is so infamously poor and even GNOME developers can often admit that, GNOME developers cannot then turn around and use extensions as an excuse to actively remove working features or dismiss requests for features now standard to every modern DE. Most people commenting are software developers too, we understand the pain of having to maintain a large project that has years of tech debt. Developers have every reason to be eager to purge old code and reluctant to add new code. But when user experience is on the line, especially in the one DE that most often forms a new user's first Linux experience, you have to actually listen to user feedback and make some tough calls that favor users. At the very least you can't blame the users for reporting the experience the users had, especially when GNOME has already made sure that filing issues constructively is a waste of time so venting on HN is all that's left. In this HN thread you've told people to stop complaining or use something else or volunteer their own time to help GNOME fix its own mess. How many of those things would you say to a brand new Linux user who tried GNOME in earnest and filed a well-meaning bug trying to participate in the community constructively without being a developer? Never mind, from this thread and many GNOME issues and forum threads online, I already know exactly how the GNOME project and its advocates treat such reports and such users.

Raxelgrande 2y ago

Thank you, i will completely ditch GNOME and warn everyone who uses or is interested in Linux about it. Feedback to developers is useful, even if it's on a ranty way, with good reason, those bugs are nasty. They should use the accessibility funds to fix them as some can be considered accessibility problems (the scrolling one). It's also easy for the developers and contributors to answer well, or at least give some kind of answer (what happened in my GNOME forums post, im just a bit sad it didn't get better). Every time i have a question regarding the upcoming COSMIC or something Pop!_OS related, someone at System76 answers and it feels very welcoming. Regarding theming, every big OS has AT LEAST accent color selection, all but GNOME. Edit: I did provide information, you can find sources for nearly everything i talked about. My post on EndeavourOS' forums has more information.

crashdancer 2y ago
>warn everyone who uses or is interested in Linux about it See, I think now you are being too overly dramatic. It's not that bad, I haven't encountered the scrolling bug in a long time. And let's not pretend that Cosmic or KDE or XFCE (or anything else) has no bugs or missing features. >Feedback to developers is useful, even if it's on a ranty way, No it really isn't. You can rant to your friends but please don't rant at developers, it's never wanted. Would you like it if someone came into your workplace and ranted at you while you're trying to work? >It's also easy for the developers and contributors to answer well, or at least give some kind of answer Not if your first interaction with them is to post a several page long essay full of rants and demands. For any open source project (not just GNOME) I recommend to be nice and talk about one issue at a time. Start with simple and short bug reports or questions. At the end always ask "is there anything I can do to help?" If there is already a bug report then be patient and don't nag them asking when it's going to be done. Do everything you can to make it easy and enjoyable for them to respond to your question. Do not blame anyone for being slow. Doing all these things greatly increases the chances of getting a response. If there is still no response, see this page for what to do: https://boyter.org/posts/the-three-f-s-of-open-source/ https://boyter.org/posts/the-three-f-s-of-open-source/ >Regarding theming, every big OS has AT LEAST accent color selection Currently that's being worked on. >I did provide information, you can find sources for nearly everything i talked about. My post on EndeavourOS' forums has more information. I looked, it's all old information for the developers. They know all those things already. These bugs have already been discussed many times, they know users are unhappy with them.

fl0ki 2y ago

I'm not GP but: > If you don't like GNOME's design then just don't use it, I don't, but for many years GNOME has been in a position where it can't use this excuse any more. GNOME is most people's first experience of a Linux desktop. These days, more people than ever are giving Linux a try, for various reasons not relevant to this discussion. Most of those people will use GNOME first because it's the default for many distros, and often recommended for its simplicity even when people do have a choice. Now GNOME could take the feedback from users that give it, and start to earn the position it takes in the ecosystem. Instead GNOME has been infamous for many years of actively dismissing user issues. If you have an issue with GNOME and you search for it online, not only are you likely to find it's a known and often long-standing issue, you're likely to find it being either closed or ignored so you know there's no point even trying to file it again. An experienced Linux desktop user might just shrug and move on to something else. A first-time Linux desktop user can be forgiven for thinking that if this is the experience they have with the most famously user-friendly DE, then the Linux desktop as a whole just isn't for them. GNOME's attitude towards user issue reports is hurting the Linux desktop as a whole, especially early in the adoption pipeline where the leverage of damage is greatest. > The developers are already aware of what bugs are present and what features are missing. Of course the developers are aware what bugs are present, users have been filing them for years, they just don't get resolved. In some cases features already existed and were actively removed with no adequate workaround; and no, extensions as they currently exist are NOT an adequate workaround. I'm not saying it's easy to fix, I'm saying when the state of extensions is so infamously poor and even GNOME developers can often admit that, GNOME developers cannot then turn around and use extensions as an excuse to actively remove working features or dismiss requests for features now standard to every modern DE. Most people commenting are software developers too, we understand the pain of having to maintain a large project that has years of tech debt. Developers have every reason to be eager to purge old code and reluctant to add new code. But when user experience is on the line, especially in the one DE that most often forms a new user's first Linux experience, you have to actually listen to user feedback and make some tough calls that favor users. At the very least you can't blame the users for reporting the experience the users had, especially when GNOME has already made sure that filing issues constructively is a waste of time so venting on HN is all that's left. In this HN thread you've told people to stop complaining or use something else or volunteer their own time to help GNOME fix its own mess. How many of those things would you say to a brand new Linux user who tried GNOME in earnest and filed a well-meaning bug trying to participate in the community constructively without being a developer? Never mind, from this thread and many GNOME issues and forum threads online, I already know exactly how the GNOME project and its advocates treat such reports and such users.