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This does not mention PyCon US 2024 was one of the extremely, extremely few conferences which did the right thing and had a mask mandate. > We are nice people

by _ugfj 2y ago

This does not mention PyCon US 2024 was one of the extremely, extremely few conferences which did the right thing and had a mask mandate. > We are nice people and many of us and our fellow community members can’t attend without health and safety guidelines in place. We want PyCon US to be an event that everyone feels safe attending. PyCon US is exceptional in that we have people attending from all over the world—last year we had people attending from 75 different countries! We love that people bring their unique perspectives… but they also bring their local germs and Covid strains. We’re masking to keep our immuno-compromised friends safe at PyCon US and to ensure that those of us who share their homes with immuno-compromised people can also consider joining us without quarantining when they return home. I salute you. I wish more conferences did this. I am quite bitter about how after all the inclusion and diversity talk over the years most open source conferences do not do this. Even Fosdem didn't have one despite 1. volunteer driven so free from financial pressure from anti vaxxer owned companies (not all communities were so lucky) 2. famous for being crowded 3. is not in the US -- where this is most politicized Edit: please read https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/unmitigated-covid-is-overwhelming https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/unmitigated-covid-is-overwhel... if you think we are past the pandemic.

twixfel 2y ago
To each their own but I'm pretty glad masks are on their way out. I wore one when I had to during the pandemic and I'm quite happy that I didn't have to wear one to any of the conferences I've been to since the pandemic ended.
- chx 2y ago
  Thanks for excluding me from the conferences you attend. I am astounded that four years in we still need to explain that a) masks are effective in stopping community transmission b) masks worn by the source are more effective or, in other words, your mask protects me while my mask protects you. How is this new? No, your stance is absolutely selfish -- not uncommon of course, but it is selfish.
  - elteto 2y ago
    There is no need to label him selfish. You don’t know him. He isn’t any more selfish than you are, traveling to a crowded conference while living with an immuno-compromised person, and on top of that expecting people to bend over to your requirements.
  - sgt 2y ago
    What's selfish is actually demanding that society changes for you (or a minority of immuno-compromised individuals). COVID was one thing, but we're way past it now and society had to go back to the normal way of things.
    - chx 2y ago
      Did you check covid wastewater statistic over the last year when you parroted the pandemic is over?
      - sgt 2y ago
        Did you check that Sweden (as an example) had no mask mandate and no vaccinations, and came off better than many nations?
        chx 2y ago
        No, Sweden deciding to euthanasia its elderly did not pay off. Try harder.
        sgt 2y ago
        Fair enough, but you just shot down your own argument. The disadvantage of Sweden's strategy was the elderly. For adults and younger people, the difference was negligible or even better than most other European countries. I'm willing to bet that you are in the elderly category and also that PyCon 24 didn't have many elderly people joining. Sorry man!
      - canadiantim 2y ago
throwaway63467 2y ago
I guess you have to find a balance between being able to have a “normal” event where people can meet each other without special medical precautions and accommodating immuno-compromised and health-anxious people. I’m really glad there’s a sense of normalcy after the pandemic again and I would not be willing to wear a mask to all such events all the time, I don’t mind wearing one to accommodate people in smaller groups or when having closer contact though.
- chx 2y ago
  > I’m really glad there’s a sense of normalcy after the pandemic again Except we are not after the pandemic, it's made up by politicians and the rich. The second highest measured covid ratio in wastewater across the United States was in 2023 December-January. It's just the virus now kills a lot less people but its long term effects, named "long covid" is a debilitating disability that people prefer to pretend not existing.
finolex1 2y ago
If you are immuno-compromised or living with someone who is, shouldn't you not be travelling thousands of miles to a large, packed conference anyway? Since masks are not 100% effective. To each their own, but I personally will not be attending PyCon next year because it was exhausting to wear a mask for 5 days straight.
- chx 2y ago
  So let's exclude those people from society, that's what you are saying. It's not just traveling thousands of miles, it's boarding a bus or entering any indoor space with unmasked people. And yes, that exclusion is the reality most of us face. This has echoes of how people with AIDS were considered back then.
  - yyggvbb 2y ago
    As someone who’s disabled, yes I have accept people can’t always accommodate me.
  - jamwil 2y ago
    But even with a mask mandate, a large conference is probably not an acceptable risk for someone in that position. Masks help, but they aren’t a complete solution, especially when folks remove them to eat and take photos.
sgt 2y ago
Sounds like a recommendation, not a mask mandate. Plenty of people in those photos without masks.
- th 2y ago
  Something important to note: many folks take their masks off for a picture, then put their masks back on. This leads non-candid photos having far few masks in them.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    Sounds like playing with fire to take off something as protective and life saving as a face mask for the sake of something as trivial as a photo.
reuven 2y ago
I think we can all agree that masking is super annoying. We can also agree that if everyone were to mask 100% of the time, then we would be in a safer world, with less spread of disease. But we all live with some level of risk. Keeping the risk level at or near zero isn't realistic, or something that most people want. We cross the street, travel in cars, etc. I find it weird that PyCon had a mandatory masking policy, when medical conferences staffed by doctors and disease experts don't have such a policy any more. And I'm guessing that PyCon's policy was made by well-meaning people who aren't doctors or medical experts. My suggestion -- and yes, I wrote this in my PyCon follow-up survey -- is that our masking policy follow whatever the CDC, AMA, or a similar body is doing for its conferences at the time PyCon takes place. If the experts require masking, then we should do so, also. And if they don't, then we should encourage people to mask if they need or want to, but we shouldn't force it upon everyone. In other words: PyCon should make decisions about the conference and Python-related things. Medical decisions should be left to outside experts.
- ongy 2y ago
  Since you attended how much did people actually follow the mandate? I looked through the pictures, and it seems to be ~not at all for picture/social situation, and maye 50% for general?
  - reuven 2y ago
    In talks, in hallways, and at the expo (i.e., company booths), I'd say adherence was at least 90 percent. But whenever there was a chance to take the mask off, people did. If there was food around, people immediately ditched the masks and stayed with food or drink in their hand to justify keeping the masks off. I was at one small (10-person) session where everyone agreed to keep masks off, gingerly making sure that no one objected. We then all made sure to have drinks in front of us to "justify" doing so. And when people went outside, the masks were off. At the PSF member lunch, where we ate together, masks were off as soon as we got food. At the PyLadies auction, where we (again) ate together, people were also without masks. I'll note that the auction took place in the same room where talks had taken place several hours earlier, with strict mask enforcement (and adherence). Bottom line, people were generally willing to follow the rules. But there was a lot of grumbling about why there should be a mask mandate in 2024, and what the justification was for having one.
VagabundoP 2y ago
I would have completely agreed with you two+ years ago but not any longer. With vaccines and other ways of dealing with Covid infections it does not seem reasonable to have to do this anymore. And I doubt it’s very effective anyway, people are notorious terrible at wearing masks. There is zero mask wearing in my country now and it’s mandated until nearly everyone was vaccinated. Now it’s no longer used as a Covid prevention measure here.

by _ugfj 2y ago

twixfel 2y ago

To each their own but I'm pretty glad masks are on their way out. I wore one when I had to during the pandemic and I'm quite happy that I didn't have to wear one to any of the conferences I've been to since the pandemic ended.

chx 2y ago
Thanks for excluding me from the conferences you attend. I am astounded that four years in we still need to explain that a) masks are effective in stopping community transmission b) masks worn by the source are more effective or, in other words, your mask protects me while my mask protects you. How is this new? No, your stance is absolutely selfish -- not uncommon of course, but it is selfish.
- elteto 2y ago
  There is no need to label him selfish. You don’t know him. He isn’t any more selfish than you are, traveling to a crowded conference while living with an immuno-compromised person, and on top of that expecting people to bend over to your requirements.
- sgt 2y ago
  What's selfish is actually demanding that society changes for you (or a minority of immuno-compromised individuals). COVID was one thing, but we're way past it now and society had to go back to the normal way of things.
  - chx 2y ago
    Did you check covid wastewater statistic over the last year when you parroted the pandemic is over?
    - sgt 2y ago
      Did you check that Sweden (as an example) had no mask mandate and no vaccinations, and came off better than many nations?
      - chx 2y ago
        No, Sweden deciding to euthanasia its elderly did not pay off. Try harder.
        sgt 2y ago
        Fair enough, but you just shot down your own argument. The disadvantage of Sweden's strategy was the elderly. For adults and younger people, the difference was negligible or even better than most other European countries. I'm willing to bet that you are in the elderly category and also that PyCon 24 didn't have many elderly people joining. Sorry man!
    - canadiantim 2y ago

throwaway63467 2y ago

I guess you have to find a balance between being able to have a “normal” event where people can meet each other without special medical precautions and accommodating immuno-compromised and health-anxious people. I’m really glad there’s a sense of normalcy after the pandemic again and I would not be willing to wear a mask to all such events all the time, I don’t mind wearing one to accommodate people in smaller groups or when having closer contact though.

chx 2y ago
> I’m really glad there’s a sense of normalcy after the pandemic again Except we are not after the pandemic, it's made up by politicians and the rich. The second highest measured covid ratio in wastewater across the United States was in 2023 December-January. It's just the virus now kills a lot less people but its long term effects, named "long covid" is a debilitating disability that people prefer to pretend not existing.

finolex1 2y ago

If you are immuno-compromised or living with someone who is, shouldn't you not be travelling thousands of miles to a large, packed conference anyway? Since masks are not 100% effective. To each their own, but I personally will not be attending PyCon next year because it was exhausting to wear a mask for 5 days straight.

chx 2y ago
So let's exclude those people from society, that's what you are saying. It's not just traveling thousands of miles, it's boarding a bus or entering any indoor space with unmasked people. And yes, that exclusion is the reality most of us face. This has echoes of how people with AIDS were considered back then.
- yyggvbb 2y ago
  As someone who’s disabled, yes I have accept people can’t always accommodate me.
- jamwil 2y ago
  But even with a mask mandate, a large conference is probably not an acceptable risk for someone in that position. Masks help, but they aren’t a complete solution, especially when folks remove them to eat and take photos.

sgt 2y ago

Sounds like a recommendation, not a mask mandate. Plenty of people in those photos without masks.

th 2y ago
Something important to note: many folks take their masks off for a picture, then put their masks back on. This leads non-candid photos having far few masks in them.
- twixfel 2y ago
  Sounds like playing with fire to take off something as protective and life saving as a face mask for the sake of something as trivial as a photo.

reuven 2y ago

I think we can all agree that masking is super annoying. We can also agree that if everyone were to mask 100% of the time, then we would be in a safer world, with less spread of disease. But we all live with some level of risk. Keeping the risk level at or near zero isn't realistic, or something that most people want. We cross the street, travel in cars, etc. I find it weird that PyCon had a mandatory masking policy, when medical conferences staffed by doctors and disease experts don't have such a policy any more. And I'm guessing that PyCon's policy was made by well-meaning people who aren't doctors or medical experts. My suggestion -- and yes, I wrote this in my PyCon follow-up survey -- is that our masking policy follow whatever the CDC, AMA, or a similar body is doing for its conferences at the time PyCon takes place. If the experts require masking, then we should do so, also. And if they don't, then we should encourage people to mask if they need or want to, but we shouldn't force it upon everyone. In other words: PyCon should make decisions about the conference and Python-related things. Medical decisions should be left to outside experts.

ongy 2y ago
Since you attended how much did people actually follow the mandate? I looked through the pictures, and it seems to be ~not at all for picture/social situation, and maye 50% for general?
- reuven 2y ago
  In talks, in hallways, and at the expo (i.e., company booths), I'd say adherence was at least 90 percent. But whenever there was a chance to take the mask off, people did. If there was food around, people immediately ditched the masks and stayed with food or drink in their hand to justify keeping the masks off. I was at one small (10-person) session where everyone agreed to keep masks off, gingerly making sure that no one objected. We then all made sure to have drinks in front of us to "justify" doing so. And when people went outside, the masks were off. At the PSF member lunch, where we ate together, masks were off as soon as we got food. At the PyLadies auction, where we (again) ate together, people were also without masks. I'll note that the auction took place in the same room where talks had taken place several hours earlier, with strict mask enforcement (and adherence). Bottom line, people were generally willing to follow the rules. But there was a lot of grumbling about why there should be a mask mandate in 2024, and what the justification was for having one.

VagabundoP 2y ago

I would have completely agreed with you two+ years ago but not any longer. With vaccines and other ways of dealing with Covid infections it does not seem reasonable to have to do this anymore. And I doubt it’s very effective anyway, people are notorious terrible at wearing masks. There is zero mask wearing in my country now and it’s mandated until nearly everyone was vaccinated. Now it’s no longer used as a Covid prevention measure here.