5 ms·

Maybe the learning and inference can happen in a VM and the apps can only have access to a query API. (Take the equivalents if it's not all ML.)

by plonk 2y ago

plonk 2y ago
Also, Windows Store apps seem to have an identity and limited permissions, so you can probably have some kind of smartphone OS-like isolation.
soraminazuki 2y ago
That's exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I wrote "memory isolation techniques." Even if you gate access with an API, you can still retrieve data from it and that's the problem. Also, it should be clear by now that government agencies are going to demand access to this data once this becomes widespread. VMs aren't going to protect against further assault on our civil liberties.
- k8svet 2y ago
  How does that work? Can authorities compell Microsoft to surreptitiously have only my computer randomly unencrypt and submit stuff? If so, couldn't the authorities just tell MS to activate a tool like recall anyway?
  - soraminazuki 2y ago
    Authorities compel tech companies to hand over data and place backdoors. They typically abuse secrecy laws to avoid public backlash, but their public demands have gotten bolder since the Snowden disclosures. https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments... https://www.techdirt.com/2016/02/16/no-judge-did-not-just-order-apple-to-break-encryption-san-bernardino-shooters-iphone-to-create-new-backdoor/ https://www.techdirt.com/2016/02/16/no-judge-did-not-just-or... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-02/juniper-mystery-attacks-traced-to-pentagon-role-and-chinese-hackers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-02/juniper-m... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants... https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1241YV/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1241YV/ http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130614/02110223467/microsoft-said-to-give-zero-day-exploits-to-us-government-before-it-patches-them.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130614/02110223467/micros... https://hn.algolia.com/?q=encryption%20ban https://hn.algolia.com/?q=encryption%20ban They even also do it without the companies' knowledge too. https://archive.is/2023.10.31-203648/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://archive.is/2023.10.31-203648/https://www.washingtonp... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/its-no-secret-government-uses-zero-days-offense https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/its-no-secret-governme... Have you been living under a rock this past decade?

Maybe the learning and inference can happen in a VM and the apps can only have access to a query API. (Take the equivalents if it's not all ML.)

by plonk 2y ago

Maybe the learning and inference can happen in a VM and the apps can only have access to a query API. (Take the equivalents if it's not all ML.)

plonk 2y ago

Also, Windows Store apps seem to have an identity and limited permissions, so you can probably have some kind of smartphone OS-like isolation.

soraminazuki 2y ago

That's exactly the kind of thing I was referring to when I wrote "memory isolation techniques." Even if you gate access with an API, you can still retrieve data from it and that's the problem. Also, it should be clear by now that government agencies are going to demand access to this data once this becomes widespread. VMs aren't going to protect against further assault on our civil liberties.

k8svet 2y ago
How does that work? Can authorities compell Microsoft to surreptitiously have only my computer randomly unencrypt and submit stuff? If so, couldn't the authorities just tell MS to activate a tool like recall anyway?
- soraminazuki 2y ago
  Authorities compel tech companies to hand over data and place backdoors. They typically abuse secrecy laws to avoid public backlash, but their public demands have gotten bolder since the Snowden disclosures. https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments... https://www.techdirt.com/2016/02/16/no-judge-did-not-just-order-apple-to-break-encryption-san-bernardino-shooters-iphone-to-create-new-backdoor/ https://www.techdirt.com/2016/02/16/no-judge-did-not-just-or... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-02/juniper-mystery-attacks-traced-to-pentagon-role-and-chinese-hackers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-02/juniper-m... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants... https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1241YV/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1241YV/ http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130614/02110223467/microsoft-said-to-give-zero-day-exploits-to-us-government-before-it-patches-them.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130614/02110223467/micros... https://hn.algolia.com/?q=encryption%20ban https://hn.algolia.com/?q=encryption%20ban They even also do it without the companies' knowledge too. https://archive.is/2023.10.31-203648/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://archive.is/2023.10.31-203648/https://www.washingtonp... https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/its-no-secret-government-uses-zero-days-offense https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/its-no-secret-governme... Have you been living under a rock this past decade?