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Interspecies communication is a massively underrated field. We've bridged human cultures in the past, which is easier because humans do similar (ish) things, w
by ralegh 2y ago
Interspecies communication is a massively underrated field.
We've bridged human cultures in the past, which is easier because humans do similar (ish) things, we can use sight, touch, smell, etc to establish common ground.
We can communicate simple things with pets, though in my experience they learn from body language and intonation, understanding grammar and language feels like a step further.
What's the common ground with whales?
Like how eskimos have 100 words for snow, whales could have thousands of phrases for water, currents, temperature, storms. Fish, migration of different species. A language of relative position needed for pack hunting. They might tell stories about El Niño, earthquakes, tsunamis.
If they have social structure we may share ideas of relationships, friendship, giving (food), owing, sharing, helping, etc.
We might be able to correlate their speech with weather patterns and animal sightings. We could probably start a two way communication, I wonder if us or them would have better forecasts for sea conditions. They could act as a network of hundreds of thousands of sensors.
Sperm whales travel so far, that even without maps they might know the shape of the continents.
Very excited for the future.
- asddubs 2y agoFrom what I understand that 100 words for snow thing isn't really true, it's just that the language uses compound words like german, so it's just that an adjective + noun is rolled into one word (e.g. powder snow would also be pulverschnee in german, but it's really just the word for powder and snow without the space)
- pavlov 2y agoOk, so let’s say there are ten qualifiers and ten base words for snow. That makes 100 compound words. It’s still substantially more snow-related vocabulary than in German, it seems to me.
- ralegh 2y agoPhrases, then.
- FabHK 2y agoMore than you ever wanted to know: The snow words myth: progress at last - https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004003.html https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/... Bad science reporting again: the Eskimos are back - https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4419 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4419 "Words for snow" watch - https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3497 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3497 The Great Eskimo Vocabulary Hoax - https://web.archive.org/web/20181203001555/http://users.utu.fi/freder/Pullum-Eskimo-VocabHoax.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20181203001555/http://users.utu.... "Eskimo Words for Snow: A Case Study in the Genesis and Decay of an Anthropological Example" - https://www.jstor.org/stable/677570 https://www.jstor.org/stable/677570 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow
- wavefunction 2y agoAs a brief aside, I think "Inuit" is the preferred term for people mistakenly called Eskimo.
- FabHK 2y agoAs the first article linked to explains: > the language family is generally called Eskimo or Eskimoan, because it includes the Yup'ik languages of Siberia and Alaska as well as the Inuit languages from the northeastern half of Alaska across Canada to Greenland
- emmelaich 2y agoAnd I've heard Eskimo is a preferred collective term for North American indigenous arctic dwellers, because Inuit is just one tribe/ethnicity among a few! So it goes.
- thaumasiotes 2y agoJust think about it from the other direction. To most Australian Aborigines, whites are called "Hollanders". How much are you offended by that?
- robocat 2y agoA list of 65 English words/phrases for types of snow by a skier: https://skimo.co/words-for-snow https://skimo.co/words-for-snow but missing a few "spring snow", "Sierra cement".
- yosito 2y agoOften people claim that Hungarian has over 50 words for "you" (https://dailymagyar.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/daily_magyar_2019_05_15-1.jpg https://dailymagyar.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05...) But even the concept of what is a "word" in Hungarian is complex. Words have so many different forms depending on the context. As a Hungarian speaker, I perceive three forms of you (te, ön, maga) and one ending that is added to other words to to form a second person form of the word (-d), but even that is a complete oversimplification. I don't think there is any reason why whale languages would have a concept of discreet words like we have in English.
- hnbad 2y agoFun fact: That is why linguists are more interested in spoken language than written language. Written languages are ultimately "amateur" attempts to codify spoken (natural) languages. Spoken language consists of utterances not letters, words or sentences. Analyzing language requires grouping sounds into compounds that serve specific functions or carry specific semantics but for spoken language the structure will be a lot fuzzier and more complex than for the simplified written language even if the author attempts to replicate spoken language in writing. Even phonemes don't tell the full story.
- IIAOPSW 2y agoI like how you start out with "their experience is so alien how can we even expect to have words for their relevant concepts", and then proceed to list a bunch of words for their relevant concepts.
- yosito 2y agoI can understand why scientists, linguists, and whale enthusiasts might be interested in understanding whale communication. But I have a much harder time imagining that whales have much to say to humans other than, "Please kindly fuck off" in 99% of cases.
- thaumasiotes 2y agoDogs have a lot to say to humans. Most of it also applies to whales: "Feed me" "I'm hurt, help me" "I found the thing you wanted. How about a reward?" If you can solve the whale's problems, then it will have things to say to you.
- yosito 2y agoDogs have lived with humans for millennia. The majority of whale individuals can probably solve their own problems far better than humans can.
- thaumasiotes 2y agoIt might be true that the filter feeder whales are better at feeding themselves than we are at feeding them. But probably not. For the predatory whales, it's definitely untrue. The reason dogs live with humans is that it's easier to have their problems solved by the humans than to do it themselves. That's why the phenomenon continues and why it began.
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- circlefavshape 2y agoI think finding out what they're saying about (rather than to) us would be amazing