4 ms·

Bernie Sanders calls for income over $1B to be taxed at 100%

15 points by green-eclipse 2y ago

kwere 2y ago
So the incumbent "nobility" dont have to fear challenges to the status quo from the business arena. Circle back a minute fraction of such taxes to the common folks to keep consensus
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  You have to start somewhere. Zeitgeist will change as the electorate turns over. 1.8M US voters 55+ die every year, 4M voters turn 18. Who has been more lucky financially? Rhetorical question of course. This is less politics and more first principles really. If we can arrive at the thesis that super wealthy people are more lucky than skilled [1] [2] [3] [4], we should build systems around the idea that there should be limits around the shared delusion of what wealth is. This is a bit like copyright, where the incentives were well intentioned, but the system and outcome has come off the rails. Failing that, a central bank can inflate away wealth, depending on the desired outcome, circumstances, etc. Wealthy equality printer go brrrr. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/03/all-billionaires-under-30-have-inherited-their-wealth-research-finds https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/03/all-billion... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/04/scott-galloway-algebra-of-wealth-pivot-elon-musk https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/04/scott-... [3] https://ustrustaem.fs.ml.com/content/dam/ust/articles/pdf/2022-BofaA-Private-Bank-Study-of-Wealthy-Americans.pdf https://ustrustaem.fs.ml.com/content/dam/ust/articles/pdf/20... [4] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-role-of-luck-in-life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-rol... https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the-state-of-us-wealth-inequality https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the... (obligatory St Louis Fed Wealth Inequality citation)
xprn 2y ago
Wouldn’t that incentivize more intricate methods for large corporations to pay larger income? I understand what he’s going for, but I personally think that such a tax law might cause unintended consequences and perverse incentives
- bediger4000 2y ago
  And our current tax laws don't?
xenospn 2y ago
I don’t see how that’s practical when places like Monaco exist and are happy to welcome people who really don’t like paying taxes. It would have to be a worldwide effort.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  US taxpayers must pay tax on global income. If we want to explore a wealth tax, securities ownership and transactions take place within the US jurisdiction. Your brokerage or the clearinghouse can send another form to the IRS for public equity, Carta or whomever manages the cap table can do so for private equity. Unless you're only going to hold investment assets in Monaco while trying to relinquish US citizenship and not pay an exit tax? I suppose if you pull up stakes, don't pay US income tax, and don't step foot financially in the jurisdiction, you might be able to avoid this depending on your window of time between that decision and death.
  - throwaway11460 2y ago
    This is why trust funds exist.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Again, it’s just a construct in a system. The rules can be changed at by time, and a piece of paper isn’t going to matter to a nation state political system. I have a trust (several, actually), and I still know better that it is permitted to exist in its current incarnation, not a perpetual, immutable right or iron clad guarantee.
      - throwaway11460 2y ago
        Yes, sure - but Monaco, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Liechtenstein etc is definitely not going to adopt the rules just because US did. They will do the exact opposite - triple down, take this new enormous opportunity and develop hundreds of new ways to offer US people safe haven for their assets. Thousands upon thousands of new startup consultancies charging just few % fees will be founded and every wealthy person in the US will have to turn off their phones and stop checking the inbox because of all that cold calling and emailing these people will do.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
Im expecting someone here will argue that would remove the incentive to work hard.
- Arnt 2y ago
  Someone else in the thread suggested that it was just a start. So the question you're looking for is: "Will that be extended to cover me?" What kinds of people would start asking themselves that question?
rvz 2y ago
Let's also introduce taxation of unrealized capital gains of >$1M to 90% and 100% for gains of >$1B for everyone, which we will start with Bernie with the former. /s
DLA 2y ago
Or maybe the government could take a serious look at how insane their spending is and do something about it. And Bernie is an idiot who thinks more money in government hands will solve problems. Social security and medicare are in trouble. Billions of COVID money went unaccounted for. The Department of Defense routinely loses track of billions in spending and the State Department is a hot mess of spending without accountability.

15 points by green-eclipse 2y ago

So the incumbent "nobility" dont have to fear challenges to the status quo from the business arena. Circle back a minute fraction of such taxes to the common folks to keep consensus

toomuchtodo 2y ago
You have to start somewhere. Zeitgeist will change as the electorate turns over. 1.8M US voters 55+ die every year, 4M voters turn 18. Who has been more lucky financially? Rhetorical question of course. This is less politics and more first principles really. If we can arrive at the thesis that super wealthy people are more lucky than skilled [1] [2] [3] [4], we should build systems around the idea that there should be limits around the shared delusion of what wealth is. This is a bit like copyright, where the incentives were well intentioned, but the system and outcome has come off the rails. Failing that, a central bank can inflate away wealth, depending on the desired outcome, circumstances, etc. Wealthy equality printer go brrrr. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/03/all-billionaires-under-30-have-inherited-their-wealth-research-finds https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/03/all-billion... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/04/scott-galloway-algebra-of-wealth-pivot-elon-musk https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/04/scott-... [3] https://ustrustaem.fs.ml.com/content/dam/ust/articles/pdf/2022-BofaA-Private-Bank-Study-of-Wealthy-Americans.pdf https://ustrustaem.fs.ml.com/content/dam/ust/articles/pdf/20... [4] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-role-of-luck-in-life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-rol... https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the-state-of-us-wealth-inequality https://www.stlouisfed.org/institute-for-economic-equity/the... (obligatory St Louis Fed Wealth Inequality citation)

xprn 2y ago

Wouldn’t that incentivize more intricate methods for large corporations to pay larger income? I understand what he’s going for, but I personally think that such a tax law might cause unintended consequences and perverse incentives

bediger4000 2y ago
And our current tax laws don't?

xenospn 2y ago

I don’t see how that’s practical when places like Monaco exist and are happy to welcome people who really don’t like paying taxes. It would have to be a worldwide effort.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
US taxpayers must pay tax on global income. If we want to explore a wealth tax, securities ownership and transactions take place within the US jurisdiction. Your brokerage or the clearinghouse can send another form to the IRS for public equity, Carta or whomever manages the cap table can do so for private equity. Unless you're only going to hold investment assets in Monaco while trying to relinquish US citizenship and not pay an exit tax? I suppose if you pull up stakes, don't pay US income tax, and don't step foot financially in the jurisdiction, you might be able to avoid this depending on your window of time between that decision and death.
- throwaway11460 2y ago
  This is why trust funds exist.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Again, it’s just a construct in a system. The rules can be changed at by time, and a piece of paper isn’t going to matter to a nation state political system. I have a trust (several, actually), and I still know better that it is permitted to exist in its current incarnation, not a perpetual, immutable right or iron clad guarantee.
    - throwaway11460 2y ago
      Yes, sure - but Monaco, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Liechtenstein etc is definitely not going to adopt the rules just because US did. They will do the exact opposite - triple down, take this new enormous opportunity and develop hundreds of new ways to offer US people safe haven for their assets. Thousands upon thousands of new startup consultancies charging just few % fees will be founded and every wealthy person in the US will have to turn off their phones and stop checking the inbox because of all that cold calling and emailing these people will do.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago

Im expecting someone here will argue that would remove the incentive to work hard.

Arnt 2y ago
Someone else in the thread suggested that it was just a start. So the question you're looking for is: "Will that be extended to cover me?" What kinds of people would start asking themselves that question?

rvz 2y ago

Let's also introduce taxation of unrealized capital gains of >$1M to 90% and 100% for gains of >$1B for everyone, which we will start with Bernie with the former. /s

DLA 2y ago

Or maybe the government could take a serious look at how insane their spending is and do something about it. And Bernie is an idiot who thinks more money in government hands will solve problems. Social security and medicare are in trouble. Billions of COVID money went unaccounted for. The Department of Defense routinely loses track of billions in spending and the State Department is a hot mess of spending without accountability.