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This sounds great but I just can't get by the oxygen deprivation and potential harm to your brain. Not to mention the hypercapnia induced tetany is very uncomfo

This sounds great but I just can't get by the oxygen deprivation and potential harm to your brain. Not to mention the hypercapnia induced tetany is very uncomfortable and seems a clear signal from the body that "this isn't good!". [As part of a psychedelic retreat we did breathwork the day before the trip to "open the mind". I faked it because I was worried about the above unanswered questions I had. I still had a great trip and feel no need for another one or similar (ie. via breathwork) to this day. :) ]

nradov 2y ago
Free divers experience the same hypoxia and hypercapnia effects. Doesn't seem to be a problem.
- mightyham 2y ago
  > Doesn't seem to be a problem I'm almost certain any amount of oxygen deprivation is damaging to the brain. If there were studies that showed conclusions to the contrary, I'd be very curious to read them.
- Enginerrrd 2y ago
  I think I recall reading a paper a while back on free divers that showed there was damage being done to the brain even though it wasn't immediately apparent. Similar to how lots of small brain impacts add up in football players.
- gonzo41 2y ago
  They die all the time. It's a problem. :P
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jobs_throwaway 2y ago
Oxygen deprivation? As noted in the study, circular breathwork has been shown to increase blood oxygenation
- eigenschwarz 2y ago
  In response to this there is vasoconstriction of the cerebral vasculature. No one knows if mild damage is being done to the brain from this. Somewhat related (not exact same mechanism, but similar), there is evidence elite free-divers are harming their brains [1]. It is easy enough to find literature about the appearance of SB100 protein with too long apnea training (eg. [2]). However, breath-holding/apnea is not the same as breathwork. The fact of the matter is, there will be no definitive proof one way or the other until someone directly probes cerebral O2 levels for an acute and chronic intervention of breathwork. Again, as someone who has indeed done psychedelics and meditates, I am open to alternative modalities, but I will personally wait for the science over anecdotes. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29053942 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29053942 [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19574501/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19574501/
pmichaud 2y ago
I feel the same. I did it once and had a big experience, but I just can my talk myself into believing it’s safe.
soco 2y ago
At least I appreciate they have the decency to not call it "higher states of consciousness". Altered is what they are, altered almost to the point of losing it, but definitely not higher - at least for my understanding where "higher" would mean some added capabilities not attained otherwise.

nradov 2y ago

Free divers experience the same hypoxia and hypercapnia effects. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

mightyham 2y ago
> Doesn't seem to be a problem I'm almost certain any amount of oxygen deprivation is damaging to the brain. If there were studies that showed conclusions to the contrary, I'd be very curious to read them.
Enginerrrd 2y ago
I think I recall reading a paper a while back on free divers that showed there was damage being done to the brain even though it wasn't immediately apparent. Similar to how lots of small brain impacts add up in football players.
gonzo41 2y ago
They die all the time. It's a problem. :P

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jobs_throwaway 2y ago

Oxygen deprivation? As noted in the study, circular breathwork has been shown to increase blood oxygenation

eigenschwarz 2y ago
In response to this there is vasoconstriction of the cerebral vasculature. No one knows if mild damage is being done to the brain from this. Somewhat related (not exact same mechanism, but similar), there is evidence elite free-divers are harming their brains [1]. It is easy enough to find literature about the appearance of SB100 protein with too long apnea training (eg. [2]). However, breath-holding/apnea is not the same as breathwork. The fact of the matter is, there will be no definitive proof one way or the other until someone directly probes cerebral O2 levels for an acute and chronic intervention of breathwork. Again, as someone who has indeed done psychedelics and meditates, I am open to alternative modalities, but I will personally wait for the science over anecdotes. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29053942 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29053942 [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19574501/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19574501/

pmichaud 2y ago

I feel the same. I did it once and had a big experience, but I just can my talk myself into believing it’s safe.

soco 2y ago

At least I appreciate they have the decency to not call it "higher states of consciousness". Altered is what they are, altered almost to the point of losing it, but definitely not higher - at least for my understanding where "higher" would mean some added capabilities not attained otherwise.