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The 'bootable container' / 'native container' space is getting really exiting, even (and especially) for desktop usecases. Atomic Fedora has had support for so

The 'bootable container' / 'native container' space is getting really exiting, even (and especially) for desktop usecases. Atomic Fedora has had support for so called Ostree Native Containers for a while now, and that will eventually adapt `bootc` as the base layer for building and booting containers (but as of now it's not totally ready yet). VanillaOS is also working on similar things but I don't think it'll use `bootc`. Some awesome community projects have also been born out of this space: - https://universal-blue.org/ https://universal-blue.org/ provides some neat Fedora images, which have one of the best Nvidia driver experiences on Linux IME, and are over all solid and dependable - https://blue-build.org/ https://blue-build.org/ makes it pretty easy to build images like Universal Blue's for personal use The best part here is really the composability; you can take a solid atomic Linux base, add whatever you like, and ship it over the air to client computers with container registries. All clients see is a diff every day, which they pull and 'apply' to be used after the next boot.

themgt 2y ago
There's also Elemental which is SUSE-oriented but distro agnostic https://github.com/rancher/elemental-toolkit https://github.com/rancher/elemental-toolkit I've been hoping NixOS moves in this direction over time, the distribution/rollout aspect seems under-baked currently.
- hhh 2y ago
  What's the best way to start with Elemental today? I haven't been able to grasp a start point, unlike RKE/Rancher which is pretty easy to onboard.
  - themgt 2y ago
    It depends what you're trying to do, but I was essentially following this guide: https://rancher.github.io/elemental-toolkit/docs/examples/embedded_images/ https://rancher.github.io/elemental-toolkit/docs/examples/em... updated to ghcr.io/rancher/elemental-toolkit/elemental-cli:v1.3.0 / registry.suse.com/suse/sle-micro-rancher/5.4 The whole project is in major flux now though, with v1.3 -> v2.1 being pre-release and docs haven't been updated, so I'm waiting for dust to settle before picking it back up. But basically `docker build` -> `elemental build-disk` -> qcow2/iso -> deploy / `elemental upgrade` update via OCI registry, or deploy vanilla image and then just update that via registry.
- tkz1312 2y ago
  What do you think nixos is missing in this area?
Gormo 2y ago
Where I'm from, we refer to a "bootable / native container" as an "OS image".
ranger_danger 2y ago
One of my biggest complaints with distros has been the lack of documentation on how to actually build the distro itself, not just an ISO but like build all the packages from source as well. Like as if you were following an LFS book. I have seen VERY few distros that provide this. Do you think this helps that at all?
- brirec 2y ago
  Universal Blue’s build system (not Blue-Build) is pretty clear, and self documenting. I maintained a personal fork of Bluefin for a while, and it was easy to understand!
  - aliasxneo 2y ago
    What made you stop?
    - brirec 2y ago
      Honestly? Immersing myself headfirst into Nix/NixOS, which has been fun and worthwhile.. but I’m not convinced it’s really “better,” at least for my needs. And the fact that it’s ever so slightly easier to build and deploy a NixOS VM from scratch on a Proxmox VE server than to build and deploy a CoreOS VM using Ignition (also on Proxmox). But it’s probably worth it for me to switch back, at least for now. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes to build a bootable Bluefin fork native container image with GitHub Actions, but a relatively basic NixOS+ Plasma 6 image took closer to 60 minutes and came out to over 8 GB compressed…
      - aliasxneo 2y ago
        Interesting, I _just_ went from NixOS to Bluefin. I took home-manager with me, though, which gives me just enough Nix without the NixOS headaches (mainly around processes daring to bring "foreign" binaries into the system). My honeymoon period with Nix lasted about six months and was pretty quickly over. I stuck with NixOS for about 18 months only out of laziness of not wanting to set something else up. I really like this new stack, though. Time will tell if it's actually better.

themgt 2y ago

There's also Elemental which is SUSE-oriented but distro agnostic https://github.com/rancher/elemental-toolkit https://github.com/rancher/elemental-toolkit I've been hoping NixOS moves in this direction over time, the distribution/rollout aspect seems under-baked currently.

hhh 2y ago
What's the best way to start with Elemental today? I haven't been able to grasp a start point, unlike RKE/Rancher which is pretty easy to onboard.
- themgt 2y ago
  It depends what you're trying to do, but I was essentially following this guide: https://rancher.github.io/elemental-toolkit/docs/examples/embedded_images/ https://rancher.github.io/elemental-toolkit/docs/examples/em... updated to ghcr.io/rancher/elemental-toolkit/elemental-cli:v1.3.0 / registry.suse.com/suse/sle-micro-rancher/5.4 The whole project is in major flux now though, with v1.3 -> v2.1 being pre-release and docs haven't been updated, so I'm waiting for dust to settle before picking it back up. But basically `docker build` -> `elemental build-disk` -> qcow2/iso -> deploy / `elemental upgrade` update via OCI registry, or deploy vanilla image and then just update that via registry.
tkz1312 2y ago
What do you think nixos is missing in this area?

Gormo 2y ago

Where I'm from, we refer to a "bootable / native container" as an "OS image".

ranger_danger 2y ago

One of my biggest complaints with distros has been the lack of documentation on how to actually build the distro itself, not just an ISO but like build all the packages from source as well. Like as if you were following an LFS book. I have seen VERY few distros that provide this. Do you think this helps that at all?

brirec 2y ago
Universal Blue’s build system (not Blue-Build) is pretty clear, and self documenting. I maintained a personal fork of Bluefin for a while, and it was easy to understand!
- aliasxneo 2y ago
  What made you stop?
  - brirec 2y ago
    Honestly? Immersing myself headfirst into Nix/NixOS, which has been fun and worthwhile.. but I’m not convinced it’s really “better,” at least for my needs. And the fact that it’s ever so slightly easier to build and deploy a NixOS VM from scratch on a Proxmox VE server than to build and deploy a CoreOS VM using Ignition (also on Proxmox). But it’s probably worth it for me to switch back, at least for now. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes to build a bootable Bluefin fork native container image with GitHub Actions, but a relatively basic NixOS+ Plasma 6 image took closer to 60 minutes and came out to over 8 GB compressed…
    - aliasxneo 2y ago
      Interesting, I _just_ went from NixOS to Bluefin. I took home-manager with me, though, which gives me just enough Nix without the NixOS headaches (mainly around processes daring to bring "foreign" binaries into the system). My honeymoon period with Nix lasted about six months and was pretty quickly over. I stuck with NixOS for about 18 months only out of laziness of not wanting to set something else up. I really like this new stack, though. Time will tell if it's actually better.