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"[name redacted], a 19-year-old Emory first-year student from Columbia, S.C., who uses the pronouns they and them, acknowledged not having followed the conflict

"[name redacted], a 19-year-old Emory first-year student from Columbia, S.C., who uses the pronouns they and them, acknowledged not having followed the conflict in Gaza especially closely, but said... " NYT is trying to paint the protestors as idiots.

Simulacra 2y ago
I think the protesters are doing a great job of that on their own.
mgh95 2y ago
Yeah, and self describing yourself as "...not having followed the conflict in Gaza especially closely..." and then joining a demonstration for a cause you did not elect to educate yourself on doesn't make it particularly hard.
- threatofrain 2y ago
  If you ask that everyone who joins a movement also be knowledgeable about their movement, then we might not even have the numbers for a React conference. That's the reality of our world, that whether you're on the right side or the wrong side, there must also be a lot of uninformed on all sides. The energy behind large movements connects all manners of people, some of whom depend entirely on social networks to disseminate the right positions for them. For the average person I would not have expected them to follow anything in foreign policy closely. Not even one thing.
  - mgh95 2y ago
    Two differences: react (and other) conferences are intended to serve a dual mandate of advocacy for a specific method and general education of attendees who may not be knowledgeable about the topic at hand. Even if I write spring boot/asp.net core all day, learning about react isn't exactly a big deal. In the case of protests, you seek to advocate for a specific course of action. It would be more akin to me sending a JEP or whatever the equivalent is for react. I would rightfully be called foolish for doing so, as I know very little about react and should choose to educate myself before attempting to advocate for a specific course of action. I don't see the incongruence here.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
csmpltn 2y ago
> NYT is trying to paint the protestors as idiots. This context is important. Indeed, many of the protestors are simply violent, uneducated, unsophisticated and weak (easily emotionally manipulated) thugs who are convinced the truth is 100% with them, and that it is therefore somehow legitimate to use terrorism and intimidation tactics on campus.
- bishbosh 2y ago
  >Indeed, many of the protestors are simply violent, uneducated, unsophisticated and weak (easily emotionally manipulated) thugs Care to justify that claim?
bell-cot 2y ago
Read the NYT's subtitle: > In many students’ eyes, the war in Gaza is linked to other issues, such as policing, mistreatment of Indigenous people, racism and the impact of climate change. I think your reading of the NYT's intentions is rather far off. Especially since the part of Ari's quote that you cut off is "...closely , but said there was considerable overlap between the movement for greater justice in policing and pro-Palestinian sentiment. They were moved to join the demonstrations on campus after seeing their friend pushed to the ground by the police."
hw-guy 2y ago
Actually the biggest idiots by far are the "Queers for Palestine," who support a regime that would cut their throats.
- tech_ken 2y ago
  Regardless of where you stand in the situation, this talking point always seems so asinine to me. Like do you actually believe that the protesters are simply ignorant of the social policies of Hamas (or support them)? Or do you just not believe it’s possible to hold a position between “the IDF should carpet bomb Gaza” and “Hamas should run the entire Levant”? It seems pretty straightforward to me that you can advocate for self-determination of a people while simultaneously recognizing that some of those people may hold opinions you dislike.
  - hw-guy 2y ago
    Actually, "Hamas should run the entire Levant" does seem to be the view of a lot of these protesters. And "opinions you dislike" is an oddly mild characterization of the actual slaughter of gays that happens under Hamas and other Islamist regimes.
    - tech_ken 2y ago
      > Actually, "Hamas should run the entire Levant" does seem to be the view of a lot of these protesters I suppose we must be talking to entirely different groups of protestors. I've never heard, read, or seen any evidence of direct or indirect support for Hamas at any of these events. Indeed most of my interactions with protestors indicate the opposite: many seem to be under the belief that Palestinian support for Hamas will be weaker in a fully independent Palestine, and part of their participation in the movement is predicated on that (particularly among the Palestinians I've spoken with). But there's not much I can really argue about if that's what you've encountered in your actual personal experience; I guess the people you have spoken with must be as stupid as you think.
      - invalidname 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Simulacra 2y ago

I think the protesters are doing a great job of that on their own.

mgh95 2y ago

Yeah, and self describing yourself as "...not having followed the conflict in Gaza especially closely..." and then joining a demonstration for a cause you did not elect to educate yourself on doesn't make it particularly hard.

threatofrain 2y ago
If you ask that everyone who joins a movement also be knowledgeable about their movement, then we might not even have the numbers for a React conference. That's the reality of our world, that whether you're on the right side or the wrong side, there must also be a lot of uninformed on all sides. The energy behind large movements connects all manners of people, some of whom depend entirely on social networks to disseminate the right positions for them. For the average person I would not have expected them to follow anything in foreign policy closely. Not even one thing.
- mgh95 2y ago
  Two differences: react (and other) conferences are intended to serve a dual mandate of advocacy for a specific method and general education of attendees who may not be knowledgeable about the topic at hand. Even if I write spring boot/asp.net core all day, learning about react isn't exactly a big deal. In the case of protests, you seek to advocate for a specific course of action. It would be more akin to me sending a JEP or whatever the equivalent is for react. I would rightfully be called foolish for doing so, as I know very little about react and should choose to educate myself before attempting to advocate for a specific course of action. I don't see the incongruence here.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

csmpltn 2y ago

> NYT is trying to paint the protestors as idiots. This context is important. Indeed, many of the protestors are simply violent, uneducated, unsophisticated and weak (easily emotionally manipulated) thugs who are convinced the truth is 100% with them, and that it is therefore somehow legitimate to use terrorism and intimidation tactics on campus.

bishbosh 2y ago
>Indeed, many of the protestors are simply violent, uneducated, unsophisticated and weak (easily emotionally manipulated) thugs Care to justify that claim?

bell-cot 2y ago

Read the NYT's subtitle: > In many students’ eyes, the war in Gaza is linked to other issues, such as policing, mistreatment of Indigenous people, racism and the impact of climate change. I think your reading of the NYT's intentions is rather far off. Especially since the part of Ari's quote that you cut off is "...closely , but said there was considerable overlap between the movement for greater justice in policing and pro-Palestinian sentiment. They were moved to join the demonstrations on campus after seeing their friend pushed to the ground by the police."

hw-guy 2y ago

Actually the biggest idiots by far are the "Queers for Palestine," who support a regime that would cut their throats.

tech_ken 2y ago
Regardless of where you stand in the situation, this talking point always seems so asinine to me. Like do you actually believe that the protesters are simply ignorant of the social policies of Hamas (or support them)? Or do you just not believe it’s possible to hold a position between “the IDF should carpet bomb Gaza” and “Hamas should run the entire Levant”? It seems pretty straightforward to me that you can advocate for self-determination of a people while simultaneously recognizing that some of those people may hold opinions you dislike.
- hw-guy 2y ago
  Actually, "Hamas should run the entire Levant" does seem to be the view of a lot of these protesters. And "opinions you dislike" is an oddly mild characterization of the actual slaughter of gays that happens under Hamas and other Islamist regimes.
  - tech_ken 2y ago
    > Actually, "Hamas should run the entire Levant" does seem to be the view of a lot of these protesters I suppose we must be talking to entirely different groups of protestors. I've never heard, read, or seen any evidence of direct or indirect support for Hamas at any of these events. Indeed most of my interactions with protestors indicate the opposite: many seem to be under the belief that Palestinian support for Hamas will be weaker in a fully independent Palestine, and part of their participation in the movement is predicated on that (particularly among the Palestinians I've spoken with). But there's not much I can really argue about if that's what you've encountered in your actual personal experience; I guess the people you have spoken with must be as stupid as you think.
    - invalidname 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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