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Virtual Power Plants and Software

cosmic_quanta 2y ago
This is a great article, thanks for sharing. Virtual power plants are recognized as being part of the future of the power grid, and it's nice to see the details behind at least one implementation. Having worked on the wholesale market side of things: technology is moving quickly, and I worry that there are years of chaos ahead of us due to a lack of standardisation, as the post mentions. Not only are each deregulated market different (e.g. California, New York, Mid-Atlantic, etc.), but in regulated markets, each UTILITY could be using a different standard. The night (the current power grid infrastructure) is darkest (most chaotic) just before the dawn (power infrastructure revolution).
- cipherself 2y ago
  How does one learn more about virtual power plants? Are there books you'd recommend? I am interested in learning both about the tech involved and the market dynamics.
  - datadrivenangel 2y ago
    I wrote a book on the topic based on the research I started in university! Virtual Power: The future of energy flexibility. My friends and family who guilt-tripped themselves into buying it to support me said it's surprisingly readable! Note: it is more market, policy, and energy technology focused, so not a deep dive into the networking and software.
    - cipherself 2y ago
      Very cool, ordered :)
      - datadrivenangel 2y ago
        Contact info is in the book if you have any questions!
    - cosmic_quanta 2y ago
      Wow that's cool, ordered a copy as well. Thanks!
    - stephendeyoung 2y ago
      Nice!
  - cosmic_quanta 2y ago
    I really like the US Department of Energy 'state of affairs' document called The pathway to virtual power plants commercial liftoff (https://liftoff.energy.gov/vpp/ https://liftoff.energy.gov/vpp/).
    - cipherself 2y ago
      Nice, thanks. I've download the "Full Report" and will give it a read.
    - stephendeyoung 2y ago
      This report was incredibly useful when writing this article.
kulor 2y ago
The linked Tesla QCon presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggdYts4muu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggdYts4muu0 was an informative watch that covers the power problem space and their distributed software solution, something Tesla is uniquely positioned to pull off with their end-to-end platform.
datadrivenangel 2y ago
Informative and concise! Fascinating to see more software details around how a VPP actually gets built! The fun thing about VPPs is that once you have the software setup, it's basically free money with less carbon emissions by undercutting the gas peaker pirates who ended up charging $1600/MWh in Texas earlier this year. [0] 0 - https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/update/wholesale-markets.php https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/update/wholesale-mar...
- cosmic_quanta 2y ago
  It's important to note that in wholesale markets, regular market participants do NOT set their own prices. Assuming that you have the ability to generate power (e.g. you own a peaker plant), you submit offers effectively saying "I'm OK providing power for at least 20$/MWh, up to 100 MWh". The market operator then solves a very complex optimization problem (called 'optimal power flow') which may result in power prices being very expensive in certain areas, due to transmission congestion.
  - datadrivenangel 2y ago
    Right, it's a clever auction system! There's a lot of long-tail value/margin to be captured by VPPs right now, especially as wind and solar penetration increases. (The Enron people abused this with too much market share by taking power plants offline at times of high demand and doing shenanigans with transmission congestion.)
rgthelen 2y ago
So interesting. How do you see regulations getting in the way of the ideal that you lay out?
- cosmic_quanta 2y ago
  Great news: regulations are evolving in the right direction on this. The US Federal Energy Regulation Commission (FERC) has mandated that electric network operator allow the participation of virtual power plants in wholesale electricity marketts. While many regional authorities are slow in implementing it (I think some operators are planning to support VPP participation in wholesale markets in 2030), regulators are on the ball.
- stephendeyoung 2y ago
  I'm less concerned about regulations and more about utilities. Many of them are still stuck in a mind set of using fossil fuel power plants to meet peak demand. Recently Georgia Power and Duke Energy in the south east of the US said they would need to build more gas power plants to meet data centre demand. But they don't need to do that. VPPs plus additional grid optimisation negates the need for more fossil fuel generation. The Volts podcast talked about this recently: https://www.volts.wtf/p/rising-electricity-demand-requires https://www.volts.wtf/p/rising-electricity-demand-requires

This is a great article, thanks for sharing. Virtual power plants are recognized as being part of the future of the power grid, and it's nice to see the details behind at least one implementation. Having worked on the wholesale market side of things: technology is moving quickly, and I worry that there are years of chaos ahead of us due to a lack of standardisation, as the post mentions. Not only are each deregulated market different (e.g. California, New York, Mid-Atlantic, etc.), but in regulated markets, each UTILITY could be using a different standard. The night (the current power grid infrastructure) is darkest (most chaotic) just before the dawn (power infrastructure revolution).

cipherself 2y ago
How does one learn more about virtual power plants? Are there books you'd recommend? I am interested in learning both about the tech involved and the market dynamics.
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  I wrote a book on the topic based on the research I started in university! Virtual Power: The future of energy flexibility. My friends and family who guilt-tripped themselves into buying it to support me said it's surprisingly readable! Note: it is more market, policy, and energy technology focused, so not a deep dive into the networking and software.
  - cipherself 2y ago
    Very cool, ordered :)
    - datadrivenangel 2y ago
      Contact info is in the book if you have any questions!
  - cosmic_quanta 2y ago
    Wow that's cool, ordered a copy as well. Thanks!
  - stephendeyoung 2y ago
    Nice!
- cosmic_quanta 2y ago
  I really like the US Department of Energy 'state of affairs' document called The pathway to virtual power plants commercial liftoff (https://liftoff.energy.gov/vpp/ https://liftoff.energy.gov/vpp/).
  - cipherself 2y ago
    Nice, thanks. I've download the "Full Report" and will give it a read.
  - stephendeyoung 2y ago
    This report was incredibly useful when writing this article.

kulor 2y ago

The linked Tesla QCon presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggdYts4muu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggdYts4muu0 was an informative watch that covers the power problem space and their distributed software solution, something Tesla is uniquely positioned to pull off with their end-to-end platform.

datadrivenangel 2y ago

Informative and concise! Fascinating to see more software details around how a VPP actually gets built! The fun thing about VPPs is that once you have the software setup, it's basically free money with less carbon emissions by undercutting the gas peaker pirates who ended up charging $1600/MWh in Texas earlier this year. [0] 0 - https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/update/wholesale-markets.php https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/update/wholesale-mar...

cosmic_quanta 2y ago
It's important to note that in wholesale markets, regular market participants do NOT set their own prices. Assuming that you have the ability to generate power (e.g. you own a peaker plant), you submit offers effectively saying "I'm OK providing power for at least 20$/MWh, up to 100 MWh". The market operator then solves a very complex optimization problem (called 'optimal power flow') which may result in power prices being very expensive in certain areas, due to transmission congestion.
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  Right, it's a clever auction system! There's a lot of long-tail value/margin to be captured by VPPs right now, especially as wind and solar penetration increases. (The Enron people abused this with too much market share by taking power plants offline at times of high demand and doing shenanigans with transmission congestion.)

rgthelen 2y ago

So interesting. How do you see regulations getting in the way of the ideal that you lay out?

cosmic_quanta 2y ago
Great news: regulations are evolving in the right direction on this. The US Federal Energy Regulation Commission (FERC) has mandated that electric network operator allow the participation of virtual power plants in wholesale electricity marketts. While many regional authorities are slow in implementing it (I think some operators are planning to support VPP participation in wholesale markets in 2030), regulators are on the ball.
stephendeyoung 2y ago
I'm less concerned about regulations and more about utilities. Many of them are still stuck in a mind set of using fossil fuel power plants to meet peak demand. Recently Georgia Power and Duke Energy in the south east of the US said they would need to build more gas power plants to meet data centre demand. But they don't need to do that. VPPs plus additional grid optimisation negates the need for more fossil fuel generation. The Volts podcast talked about this recently: https://www.volts.wtf/p/rising-electricity-demand-requires https://www.volts.wtf/p/rising-electricity-demand-requires