5 ms·

This includes - making donation to ukraine if you're russian - not have your asset frozen if you protest and the canada government disagree - protecting your

by mam2 2y ago

This includes - making donation to ukraine if you're russian - not have your asset frozen if you protest and the canada government disagree - protecting yourself against false accusation - protecting again a country that would turn communist in an election (closer than you think in some european ones) - getting an additional veil of anonymity if you have to do something illegal in your state such as abortion or defending gay rights. so yeah this is 'against the law' but sometime the law is not on the good side.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> making donation to ukraine if you're russian Crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine. Even when we look at the crypto donated, most (EDIT: half) of it was dollar denominated [1]. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/27/ukraine-has-raised-225m-in-crypto-to-fight-russian-invasion-but-donations-have-stagnated-over-the-last-year-crystal/ https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/27/ukrai...
- eimrine 2y ago
  > Even when we look at the crypto donated, most of it was dollar denominated [1]. Have you at least read your source? 120 of 225M were BTC + ETH. > Crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine. Crypto is there barely since the Second Maydan, of course Ukrainians managed to survive without cryptocurrencies. If you look closely on your arguments, you will find just a rejection without any arguments. Didn't you observe the recent news about Xenia Havana who donated $50 from her American bank account being in Russia and therefore went into jail?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > 120 of 225M were BTC + ETH Sorry, meant to say half. Corrected. Thank you. > Xenia Havana who donated $50 from her American bank account being in Russia and therefore went into jail? $50 is not meaningful.
    - VMG 2y ago
      > $50 is not meaningful. for her it is, in many ways
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > for her it is, in many ways Sure. I never said crypto is useless. But something being randomly meaningful to one person doesn't make it "a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine."
    - eimrine 2y ago
      > $50 A human went to jail because of using obsoleted money transaction technologies and you are really judging the fact by the amount of her donation - just to protect your misjudgement about cryptocurrencies? Are you even Ukrainian? > Sorry, meant to say half. Corrected. Thank you. Even if it would be 99%, so what? Why are using this as an argument?
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > judging the fact by the amount of her donation I said the dollar amount isn't meaningful. Because the original claim was that "crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine." > Even if it would be 99%, so what? It means crypto is being used to send U.S. dollars. It's a derivative financial system, and one completely subject to U.S. law, surveillance and sanctions. The Ukraine example is not a case study for crypto delivering value add at scale.
        eimrine 2y ago
        > I said the dollar amount isn't meaningful. Because the original claim was that "crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine." Your saying isn't reasonable because you are talking about tangential things to cryptocurrency. Ability to donate from/to some dissidents despite of crazy thugs is meaningful. Amount of donated funds by Ukrainian anti-Russian adventure is not. > It means crypto is being used to send U.S. dollars. The Ukraine example is not a case study for crypto delivering value add at scale. It is as reasonable as to say that USD is being used to send Bitcoins. Why not, aren't you able to buy Bitcoins with USD?
- MacsHeadroom 2y ago
  Dollar denominated crypto is still crypto.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Dollar denominated crypto is still crypto Sure. But within the context of a money-laundering article, it's important to note that dollar-denominated crypto exists at the whim of the U.S. government. It is globally subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and uniquely vulnerable to U.S. surveillance and sanctions.
    - MacsHeadroom 2y ago
      This is not a property of stable coins, but of permissioned stable coins only. Decentralized permission less stableclins like DAI etc. are beholden to none.
- mam2 2y ago
  The volume of contribution is not the point.
RandomLensman 2y ago
Which European countries are close to becoming communist? And what protection does it offer then if said communist countries use violence to collect private wealth?
- mam2 2y ago
  Mélenchon in France has big scores wants to take 100% (everything) on income tax above 30k per month per individual. Do this and I will instantly get paid in crypto and have a new nationality
  - RandomLensman 2y ago
    Even if that were to happen (which I cannot see as the PS polls around 12%) it would be a far cry from actual communism. Also, how would crypto help if the situation would be permanent and you stayed there?
eimrine 2y ago
Also if you are Russian living outside of Russia then good luck having a bank account, since European scumbags effectively consider any Russian as villain.
- mam2 2y ago
  hence crypto. Also there are many other countries than europe and russia
elsonrodriguez 2y ago
Bit of a tangent, but the fundraiser that the Canadian government froze was initially organized by a Canadian secessionist and a white nationalist, and during that protest (and possibly unrelated) weapons were seized at a border crossing from members of diagalon, a white nationalist group that wants to carve out parts of Canada and USA to make a “white” nation. Unlike your other examples, that one is an example of using crypto for nefarious reasons.
- 49para 2y ago
  You mean the Diagolon group who's leader is a cocaine using ceramic time travelling goat ? https://www.tiktok.com/@alphaaaroxy_teammoto/video/7161555785418394886 https://www.tiktok.com/@alphaaaroxy_teammoto/video/716155578... The Diagolon that the House of Commons said was a "violent extremist organisation." but has never committed a crime ? The same Diagolon that the RCMP determined: "DIAGOLON does not pose a criminal or national security threat." - Royal Canadian Mounted Police https://finance.yahoo.com/news/documents-reveal-shocking-rcmp-failures-201000207.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/documents-reveal-shocking-rcm... Diagolon is a meme and you don't get it, which is ok but stop spreading misinformation.
  - elsonrodriguez 2y ago
    Ah, so there was a procedural issue in prosecuting the group with a cache of guns that wants to carve out a white nation out of Canada and the US. My mistake. This doesn’t change the point that from the perspective of the Canadian government, they were facing 2 racist separatist groups at a time, and one of the groups was raising a LOT of cash while leading an occupation of the capital. This is a valid scenario for seizing funds, though maybe the fact that groups like Diagalon and Wexit are a “meme” should be considered more closely.
    - 49para 2y ago
      Where are these racist separatist groups coming from ? Sure Wexit is a separatist group but I fail to see where you are getting racist from. One of the originators of Diagolon is black.

by mam2 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> making donation to ukraine if you're russian Crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine. Even when we look at the crypto donated, most (EDIT: half) of it was dollar denominated [1]. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/27/ukraine-has-raised-225m-in-crypto-to-fight-russian-invasion-but-donations-have-stagnated-over-the-last-year-crystal/ https://www.coindesk.com/consensus-magazine/2023/07/27/ukrai...

eimrine 2y ago
> Even when we look at the crypto donated, most of it was dollar denominated [1]. Have you at least read your source? 120 of 225M were BTC + ETH. > Crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine. Crypto is there barely since the Second Maydan, of course Ukrainians managed to survive without cryptocurrencies. If you look closely on your arguments, you will find just a rejection without any arguments. Didn't you observe the recent news about Xenia Havana who donated $50 from her American bank account being in Russia and therefore went into jail?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > 120 of 225M were BTC + ETH Sorry, meant to say half. Corrected. Thank you. > Xenia Havana who donated $50 from her American bank account being in Russia and therefore went into jail? $50 is not meaningful.
  - VMG 2y ago
    > $50 is not meaningful. for her it is, in many ways
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > for her it is, in many ways Sure. I never said crypto is useless. But something being randomly meaningful to one person doesn't make it "a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine."
  - eimrine 2y ago
    > $50 A human went to jail because of using obsoleted money transaction technologies and you are really judging the fact by the amount of her donation - just to protect your misjudgement about cryptocurrencies? Are you even Ukrainian? > Sorry, meant to say half. Corrected. Thank you. Even if it would be 99%, so what? Why are using this as an argument?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > judging the fact by the amount of her donation I said the dollar amount isn't meaningful. Because the original claim was that "crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine." > Even if it would be 99%, so what? It means crypto is being used to send U.S. dollars. It's a derivative financial system, and one completely subject to U.S. law, surveillance and sanctions. The Ukraine example is not a case study for crypto delivering value add at scale.
      - eimrine 2y ago
        > I said the dollar amount isn't meaningful. Because the original claim was that "crypto, much less crypto from Russians, hasn't been a meaningful contribution vector for Ukraine." Your saying isn't reasonable because you are talking about tangential things to cryptocurrency. Ability to donate from/to some dissidents despite of crazy thugs is meaningful. Amount of donated funds by Ukrainian anti-Russian adventure is not. > It means crypto is being used to send U.S. dollars. The Ukraine example is not a case study for crypto delivering value add at scale. It is as reasonable as to say that USD is being used to send Bitcoins. Why not, aren't you able to buy Bitcoins with USD?
MacsHeadroom 2y ago
Dollar denominated crypto is still crypto.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Dollar denominated crypto is still crypto Sure. But within the context of a money-laundering article, it's important to note that dollar-denominated crypto exists at the whim of the U.S. government. It is globally subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and uniquely vulnerable to U.S. surveillance and sanctions.
  - MacsHeadroom 2y ago
    This is not a property of stable coins, but of permissioned stable coins only. Decentralized permission less stableclins like DAI etc. are beholden to none.
mam2 2y ago
The volume of contribution is not the point.

RandomLensman 2y ago

Which European countries are close to becoming communist? And what protection does it offer then if said communist countries use violence to collect private wealth?

mam2 2y ago
Mélenchon in France has big scores wants to take 100% (everything) on income tax above 30k per month per individual. Do this and I will instantly get paid in crypto and have a new nationality
- RandomLensman 2y ago
  Even if that were to happen (which I cannot see as the PS polls around 12%) it would be a far cry from actual communism. Also, how would crypto help if the situation would be permanent and you stayed there?

eimrine 2y ago

Also if you are Russian living outside of Russia then good luck having a bank account, since European scumbags effectively consider any Russian as villain.

mam2 2y ago
hence crypto. Also there are many other countries than europe and russia

elsonrodriguez 2y ago

Bit of a tangent, but the fundraiser that the Canadian government froze was initially organized by a Canadian secessionist and a white nationalist, and during that protest (and possibly unrelated) weapons were seized at a border crossing from members of diagalon, a white nationalist group that wants to carve out parts of Canada and USA to make a “white” nation. Unlike your other examples, that one is an example of using crypto for nefarious reasons.

49para 2y ago
You mean the Diagolon group who's leader is a cocaine using ceramic time travelling goat ? https://www.tiktok.com/@alphaaaroxy_teammoto/video/7161555785418394886 https://www.tiktok.com/@alphaaaroxy_teammoto/video/716155578... The Diagolon that the House of Commons said was a "violent extremist organisation." but has never committed a crime ? The same Diagolon that the RCMP determined: "DIAGOLON does not pose a criminal or national security threat." - Royal Canadian Mounted Police https://finance.yahoo.com/news/documents-reveal-shocking-rcmp-failures-201000207.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/documents-reveal-shocking-rcm... Diagolon is a meme and you don't get it, which is ok but stop spreading misinformation.
- elsonrodriguez 2y ago
  Ah, so there was a procedural issue in prosecuting the group with a cache of guns that wants to carve out a white nation out of Canada and the US. My mistake. This doesn’t change the point that from the perspective of the Canadian government, they were facing 2 racist separatist groups at a time, and one of the groups was raising a LOT of cash while leading an occupation of the capital. This is a valid scenario for seizing funds, though maybe the fact that groups like Diagalon and Wexit are a “meme” should be considered more closely.
  - 49para 2y ago
    Where are these racist separatist groups coming from ? Sure Wexit is a separatist group but I fail to see where you are getting racist from. One of the originators of Diagolon is black.