5 ms·

I didn't pay for Clear so that I could bask in my social status at the airport. I paid for it so I don't have to go through the PornoScanner™, which is ridiculo

I didn't pay for Clear so that I could bask in my social status at the airport. I paid for it so I don't have to go through the PornoScanner™, which is ridiculous, demeaning, and unnecessary. For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it, but I can't gripe at the airport because then the TSA people get very worked up. Hence, Clear.

SavageBeast 2y ago
$10 says they do indeed maintain those images someplace and $10 more says they're going to be used to train AI models "to enhance the security and safety of the US travel experience".
ksherlock 2y ago
TSA pre-check uses a metal detector instead of the rapey-scans. (edit - called it an x-ray machine, d'oh)
- lokar 2y ago
  I think you mean metal detector
- s0rce 2y ago
  most of the backscatter X-ray machines are gone, its a millimeter wave scanner
Thrymr 2y ago
With TSA precheck, you only have to go through a metal detector. It's a program run by a federal agency, not a private contractor that requires your retinal scans. It's also available at more US airports than Clear.
- jdlshore 2y ago
  Just renewed my pre-check. Was surprised to see that the security screening was by a private company: I had a choice of three, each with their own (similar) pricing. Clear was one of them.
recursive 2y ago
> For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it So they'll be able to get on their flight.
micromacrofoot 2y ago
You can still opt out of it right?
- reustle 2y ago
  Yes, you can. Even without pre-check (though I still recommend pre too).
- altairprime 2y ago
  Yep. After sixty or so opt-out pat downs and a pandemic transition, I got Precheck so that my transgenderness doesn’t Surprise(tm) my government when I fly. Hooray for metal detectors.
kerkeslager 2y ago
I just opt out every time. It's an inconvenience, but it's an inconvenience that costs them money, and everyone should do it instead of paying for a workaround that provides them another revenue stream. Security theater for corporate profits is total bullcrap.
- lxm 2y ago
  > but it's an inconvenience that costs them money Does it? It’s not like they have to hire someone extra, they just call up someone from the crew that walks over as slowly as they possibly can, and projects as much attitude as they possibly can. That agent’s highlight of the day would be making opt-outers wait.
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    > Does it? It’s not like they have to hire someone extra, they just call up someone from the crew This is a bit of a bizarre argument. Do you think the crew is made up of volunteers? Do you think the number of crew members somehow isn't determined in part by the throughput of tasks crew members are needed to perform? I'm not even sure what you think is going on here. > that walks over as slowly as they possibly can, and projects as much attitude as they possibly can. That agent’s highlight of the day would be making opt-outers wait. That's never been my experience in like 20ish flights since TSA started irradiating people. I know the agent isn't the problem, and I treat them as the human being doing their job that they are, and the entire thing goes by like the routine waste of time that it is.
- smlavine 2y ago
  Would you mind sharing the exact steps you take and what happens next when you do this?
  - yowzadave 2y ago
    You just tell the TSA agent that you want to opt out of the body scanner. They then find an agent of your gender to do a pat-down screening and a swab to test for trace chemicals. It takes about 3 minutes assuming they have an agent available.
jinushaun 2y ago
I understand that it bothers some people, but it doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t find it degrading or demeaning. It’s not even about a difference in my tolerance for uncomfortable things. It’s not even on my radar of things that grind my gears. I’m more bothered by taking off my shoes
- sokoloff 2y ago
  I think it’s a much more invasive search than is required to serve the legitimate security purpose (and is therefore unreasonable). I opt-out as a matter of protecting my Fourth Amendment rights, not because I care about someone seeing my body.
- mncharity 2y ago
  > it doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t find it degrading or demeaning. What about second hand? I like travel, but one downside, is the memories of pain. The woman with the thousand-yard stare as her genitals are groped. The stressed-out pregnant woman being "persuaded" with same to use the ramshackle backscatter X-ray, her young child freaked beside her. Turn your back and walk away. There are many places in the world, where when random people are being hurt, you just do not get involved. But it's a hit.
lmm 2y ago
"So when you are requested to pay up or be molested" indeed.
kayodelycaon 2y ago
> For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it Let’s see. My options are getting on my flight… or not getting on my flight. Maybe it’s selfish but I’m more interested in getting on a plane than making a stand for freedom in the airport security line.
marcinzm 2y ago
Isn't Clear only for the pre-check and not for the scanning? TSA Pre let's you get the metal detector only but I thought Clear goes to the regular security screening unless you also have TSA Pre.
internetter 2y ago
> the PornoScanner™ What part of the airport experience are you talking about here?
- clipsy 2y ago
  Backscatter X-Ray or similar, presumably.
  - internetter 2y ago
    Haven’t those been phased out at most major airports? I fly with some frequency and all the TSA agent sees is an illustration of my body shape. Apparently this is using milimetre waves
    - dmitrygr 2y ago
      The machine creates a detailed pornographic-detail-grade image [1]. You have no way to know if it is saved. What is displayed on the external screen is not relevant. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-generated-by-L3-millimetre-wave-technology-scanners-Source-US-Department-of_fig2_262202066 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-generated-by-L3-mi...
cheema33 2y ago
> I paid for it so I don't have to go through the PornoScanner™ Are you sure you are a Clear member? You seem to be missing some basic information about Clear membership. Clear members go through the same scanners as the commoners. Only the people who did not get scammed into paying for Clear and instead paid for TSA Pre, get to skip the slow scan lines.
marssaxman 2y ago
You don't have to go through the pornoscanner regardless; I always request the complimentary massage instead. It is all ridiculous, demeaning, and unnecessary either way, but somehow it feels a little better when the process is ridiculous and demeaning for the TSA staff, too. If everyone opted out, the security line would grind to a halt, and politically-connected people would therefore lose money. Would that force the powers-that-be to improve this mess? I think we should try to find out.

SavageBeast 2y ago

$10 says they do indeed maintain those images someplace and $10 more says they're going to be used to train AI models "to enhance the security and safety of the US travel experience".

ksherlock 2y ago

TSA pre-check uses a metal detector instead of the rapey-scans. (edit - called it an x-ray machine, d'oh)

lokar 2y ago
I think you mean metal detector
s0rce 2y ago
most of the backscatter X-ray machines are gone, its a millimeter wave scanner

Thrymr 2y ago

With TSA precheck, you only have to go through a metal detector. It's a program run by a federal agency, not a private contractor that requires your retinal scans. It's also available at more US airports than Clear.

jdlshore 2y ago
Just renewed my pre-check. Was surprised to see that the security screening was by a private company: I had a choice of three, each with their own (similar) pricing. Clear was one of them.

recursive 2y ago

> For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it So they'll be able to get on their flight.

micromacrofoot 2y ago

You can still opt out of it right?

reustle 2y ago
Yes, you can. Even without pre-check (though I still recommend pre too).
altairprime 2y ago
Yep. After sixty or so opt-out pat downs and a pandemic transition, I got Precheck so that my transgenderness doesn’t Surprise(tm) my government when I fly. Hooray for metal detectors.

kerkeslager 2y ago

I just opt out every time. It's an inconvenience, but it's an inconvenience that costs them money, and everyone should do it instead of paying for a workaround that provides them another revenue stream. Security theater for corporate profits is total bullcrap.

lxm 2y ago
> but it's an inconvenience that costs them money Does it? It’s not like they have to hire someone extra, they just call up someone from the crew that walks over as slowly as they possibly can, and projects as much attitude as they possibly can. That agent’s highlight of the day would be making opt-outers wait.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  > Does it? It’s not like they have to hire someone extra, they just call up someone from the crew This is a bit of a bizarre argument. Do you think the crew is made up of volunteers? Do you think the number of crew members somehow isn't determined in part by the throughput of tasks crew members are needed to perform? I'm not even sure what you think is going on here. > that walks over as slowly as they possibly can, and projects as much attitude as they possibly can. That agent’s highlight of the day would be making opt-outers wait. That's never been my experience in like 20ish flights since TSA started irradiating people. I know the agent isn't the problem, and I treat them as the human being doing their job that they are, and the entire thing goes by like the routine waste of time that it is.
smlavine 2y ago
Would you mind sharing the exact steps you take and what happens next when you do this?
- yowzadave 2y ago
  You just tell the TSA agent that you want to opt out of the body scanner. They then find an agent of your gender to do a pat-down screening and a swab to test for trace chemicals. It takes about 3 minutes assuming they have an agent available.

jinushaun 2y ago

I understand that it bothers some people, but it doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t find it degrading or demeaning. It’s not even about a difference in my tolerance for uncomfortable things. It’s not even on my radar of things that grind my gears. I’m more bothered by taking off my shoes

sokoloff 2y ago
I think it’s a much more invasive search than is required to serve the legitimate security purpose (and is therefore unreasonable). I opt-out as a matter of protecting my Fourth Amendment rights, not because I care about someone seeing my body.
mncharity 2y ago
> it doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t find it degrading or demeaning. What about second hand? I like travel, but one downside, is the memories of pain. The woman with the thousand-yard stare as her genitals are groped. The stressed-out pregnant woman being "persuaded" with same to use the ramshackle backscatter X-ray, her young child freaked beside her. Turn your back and walk away. There are many places in the world, where when random people are being hurt, you just do not get involved. But it's a hit.

lmm 2y ago

"So when you are requested to pay up or be molested" indeed.

kayodelycaon 2y ago

> For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it Let’s see. My options are getting on my flight… or not getting on my flight. Maybe it’s selfish but I’m more interested in getting on a plane than making a stand for freedom in the airport security line.

marcinzm 2y ago

Isn't Clear only for the pre-check and not for the scanning? TSA Pre let's you get the metal detector only but I thought Clear goes to the regular security screening unless you also have TSA Pre.

internetter 2y ago

> the PornoScanner™ What part of the airport experience are you talking about here?

clipsy 2y ago
Backscatter X-Ray or similar, presumably.
- internetter 2y ago
  Haven’t those been phased out at most major airports? I fly with some frequency and all the TSA agent sees is an illustration of my body shape. Apparently this is using milimetre waves
  - dmitrygr 2y ago
    The machine creates a detailed pornographic-detail-grade image [1]. You have no way to know if it is saved. What is displayed on the external screen is not relevant. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-generated-by-L3-millimetre-wave-technology-scanners-Source-US-Department-of_fig2_262202066 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-generated-by-L3-mi...

cheema33 2y ago

> I paid for it so I don't have to go through the PornoScanner™ Are you sure you are a Clear member? You seem to be missing some basic information about Clear membership. Clear members go through the same scanners as the commoners. Only the people who did not get scammed into paying for Clear and instead paid for TSA Pre, get to skip the slow scan lines.

marssaxman 2y ago

You don't have to go through the pornoscanner regardless; I always request the complimentary massage instead. It is all ridiculous, demeaning, and unnecessary either way, but somehow it feels a little better when the process is ridiculous and demeaning for the TSA staff, too. If everyone opted out, the security line would grind to a halt, and politically-connected people would therefore lose money. Would that force the powers-that-be to improve this mess? I think we should try to find out.