6 ms·

I use vscode for doing devops-y things (Terraform, OpenTofu, JSON, python, yaml, txt, dockerfiles, etc.) and sometimes the way it bogs down my system drives me

I use vscode for doing devops-y things (Terraform, OpenTofu, JSON, python, yaml, txt, dockerfiles, etc.) and sometimes the way it bogs down my system drives me bananas. I'll punt to Sublime Text on occasion and use it for a few days, but then start running into papercuts in various places and have to go back to vscode. I so, so wish there was a better way to do this without fucking electron.

bbkane 2y ago
Keep an eye on https://lapce.dev/ https://lapce.dev/ and https://zed.dev/ https://zed.dev/ . Both immature, but show a lot of promise! Also both open source, so (in theory, I haven't tried) you can contribute patches to fic your issues
- gcardinal 2y ago
  Man, Zed gives me hope, but it's missing so many features and (robust) extensions. Monthly I'll open it and see if I can start working with it, but the day still has not come.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> devops-y things (Terraform, OpenTofu, JSON, python, yaml, txt, dockerfiles, etc.) > I so, so wish there was a better way to do this without fucking electron. I do all of those things in vim and it works fine. No GUI and I'm sure it's missing some fancy new features, but it's fast and reliable (and it's not electron).
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  I traded vim for VSCode back when VSCode was fast. These days, there is so much shit running in VSCode by default that it has become an unruly mess. I couldn't tell you what happens when I save or open a file like I could with Vim--what checks are being ran or what telemetry is being exfiltrated. At this point it's just laziness and inertia keeping me on VSCode, getting my neovim setup back (along with the muscle memory) keeps getting pushed off.
  - theossuary 2y ago
    I haven't been able to find an IDE use because their vim integration is only ever for the editor. But I hate having to constantly manage my vim config; I settled on using LazyVim and have been pretty happy. It's heavy as far as vim is concerned, but once you get used to it, it's nice being able to update and not have everything break hah
    - candiddevmike 2y ago
      I had a ridiculously fine tuned neovim setup in my dotfiles that I created over the years, including a nice neovim terminal setup that I can navigate/change using only keyboard (never been a big tmux fan). I've managed to replicate some of it decently with VSCode (vim extension, and I can do CTRL+j to open a terminal and CTRL+k to move back to the editor), but it's just slow and has a tendency of crashing at the worst time.
- Vermyndax 2y ago
  There is some syntax highlighting for Terraform in nano, so maybe I should try rolling with the terminal for a while.
INTPenis 2y ago
Makes me glad I stuck with vim. I do pretty much the same thing as you, what made you use vscode in the first place? What are the coolest features in your context?
- Scarbutt 2y ago
  IMO, the big is one good/smart programming language support, either out of the box or with a few clicks. If you know vim well, the vim plugin has serious limitations though. On windows/linux the reliance on home/end/pgup/pgdn/arrow-keys/del/mouse etc... is atrocious if you are used to vim so the vim plugin is still a life saver. The remote dev extensions also pretty good.
- CuriouslyC 2y ago
  VS Code has a strong plugin ecosystem, and is built around plugins. You can find plugins for everything, so whatever linting, code formatting, back end integration, custom renderers, menus, etc you want you can build and plug in if they aren't available already. Beyond that access to a project tree view / definition list toggle on the side, debug code at cursor, context menu options to refactor/find usage/etc, and easy pixel perfect control of pane layout when working with multiple documents simultaneously. I never got that deep into vim/emacs but I wasn't impressed with their versions of the features I listed compared to what is available in a good IDE like intellij/vscode. I do wish the performance was a bit better but I have a beastly workstation so it's not a big deal.
  - pinusc 2y ago
    I'd say everything you described is true of vim as well, especially nowadays with LSP and tree-sitter and async capabilities in plugins. The plugin ecosystem is thriving. Neovim's lua api makes it even easier to develop plugins. It does take a fair bit of configuration if you want to start from scratch, but there's also distributions (such as LazyVim [1]) which make it trivial to start from an editor basically as fully featured as VScode. Of course, there's still the learning curve for a modal editor, but that's the whole point of using vim. I assume there are vi-style plugins for VScode, but then you're missing out on performance. 1: https://www.lazyvim.org/ https://www.lazyvim.org/
scoopdewoop 2y ago
Why do you think your issue has anything to do with electron? That sounds like a meme. It is your drives, no? Does the browser make your system drives work a bunch? Much more likely, it is VSCode running ripgrep (rg in htop/activity monitor) in the background to find symbols in your codebase. That would be exactly the same regardless of GUI toolkit. edit: misread "system drives me bananas" as pertaining to "system drives" nvm
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  Its not electron, but abusing the webview rendering for realtime software'
  - deleted 2y ago
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wffurr 2y ago
Paper cuts like what? Deficiencies in the syntax plugins?
- Vermyndax 2y ago
  * Drag/drop support from Finder. * Git pre-commit chokes Sublime Merge (for some weird reason), I'm sure I can troubleshoot this but I every time I take a swing at it, it blows up in my face and I give up * Strange autocomplete issues * A few other things I forget about, but will try it again and see if I can remember
dangus 2y ago
I have like 10 separate VSCode workspaces (windows) open at all times along with 2 browsers and dozens of tabs and I never feel like my system is bogged down. In that sense I wonder if your computer just needs an upgrade? I’m not advocating for e-waste but also if you’re a developer then you’re the most justified person to invest in a beefy system. E.g., if you have any kind of Intel Mac, you absolutely should upgrade. I don’t let my computers get older than 3-5 years because compromises to my workflow aren’t worth the cost savings (I just make sure I keep them in good shape and sell them to someone who is going to continue using them). I want to choose the best software for my workflow, which is not necessarily the software that is most resource efficient (that would be like choosing MS Paint instead of Photoshop).
levodelellis 2y ago
Except for the occasional python I don't need to touch any of that. I'm the author, try looking the editor up in 3 or 6months. It may have most of the papercuts solved. I went after the big things that I had no time to implement the little
wg0 2y ago
It's the terrraform part of the LSP that's buggy and there's an issue open for that on Terraform extension's GitHub repo.
- Vermyndax 2y ago
  Yeah, the LSP does seem to go through some seriously bad days/weeks.
prmph 2y ago
Exactly. Talk about something as simple as code folding. VsCode does the best job of it I know, and yet the other day it simply stopped working properly for pure JS code, not sure if that's because Microsoft prefers we use Typescript instead of JS. Nothing I did fixed it, and something as simple as that messes us with your workflow. And then I remember that VSCode has introduced a recent bug where after you collapse a piece of code, the file jumps to a weird location. And other paper cuts too numerous to mention, which seems to appear and go randomly So I tried Sublime text again, only to find that "Collaspe All" does not work properly by design, whatever the reason for that. And it still insists on making many things un-ergonomic. So I try Webstorm again, and after a few tweaks, it seems to do pretty much what I want. But, it is dog slow, and the display of collapsed comments is a bit weird. I start thinking of writing my own code editor... My point is pretty much this: The various advanced code editors spend so much effort on advanced features, but they forget that the basic must work flawlessly for most devs to have a good experience. I wish they focused on the basics again to make common sue cases frictionless.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  My guess is we have have a different 10% that we consider common use cases. Much the same way folks complain about Microsoft Office being bloated.

bbkane 2y ago

Keep an eye on https://lapce.dev/ https://lapce.dev/ and https://zed.dev/ https://zed.dev/ . Both immature, but show a lot of promise! Also both open source, so (in theory, I haven't tried) you can contribute patches to fic your issues

gcardinal 2y ago
Man, Zed gives me hope, but it's missing so many features and (robust) extensions. Monthly I'll open it and see if I can start working with it, but the day still has not come.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

> devops-y things (Terraform, OpenTofu, JSON, python, yaml, txt, dockerfiles, etc.) > I so, so wish there was a better way to do this without fucking electron. I do all of those things in vim and it works fine. No GUI and I'm sure it's missing some fancy new features, but it's fast and reliable (and it's not electron).

candiddevmike 2y ago
I traded vim for VSCode back when VSCode was fast. These days, there is so much shit running in VSCode by default that it has become an unruly mess. I couldn't tell you what happens when I save or open a file like I could with Vim--what checks are being ran or what telemetry is being exfiltrated. At this point it's just laziness and inertia keeping me on VSCode, getting my neovim setup back (along with the muscle memory) keeps getting pushed off.
- theossuary 2y ago
  I haven't been able to find an IDE use because their vim integration is only ever for the editor. But I hate having to constantly manage my vim config; I settled on using LazyVim and have been pretty happy. It's heavy as far as vim is concerned, but once you get used to it, it's nice being able to update and not have everything break hah
  - candiddevmike 2y ago
    I had a ridiculously fine tuned neovim setup in my dotfiles that I created over the years, including a nice neovim terminal setup that I can navigate/change using only keyboard (never been a big tmux fan). I've managed to replicate some of it decently with VSCode (vim extension, and I can do CTRL+j to open a terminal and CTRL+k to move back to the editor), but it's just slow and has a tendency of crashing at the worst time.
Vermyndax 2y ago
There is some syntax highlighting for Terraform in nano, so maybe I should try rolling with the terminal for a while.

INTPenis 2y ago

Makes me glad I stuck with vim. I do pretty much the same thing as you, what made you use vscode in the first place? What are the coolest features in your context?

Scarbutt 2y ago
IMO, the big is one good/smart programming language support, either out of the box or with a few clicks. If you know vim well, the vim plugin has serious limitations though. On windows/linux the reliance on home/end/pgup/pgdn/arrow-keys/del/mouse etc... is atrocious if you are used to vim so the vim plugin is still a life saver. The remote dev extensions also pretty good.
CuriouslyC 2y ago
VS Code has a strong plugin ecosystem, and is built around plugins. You can find plugins for everything, so whatever linting, code formatting, back end integration, custom renderers, menus, etc you want you can build and plug in if they aren't available already. Beyond that access to a project tree view / definition list toggle on the side, debug code at cursor, context menu options to refactor/find usage/etc, and easy pixel perfect control of pane layout when working with multiple documents simultaneously. I never got that deep into vim/emacs but I wasn't impressed with their versions of the features I listed compared to what is available in a good IDE like intellij/vscode. I do wish the performance was a bit better but I have a beastly workstation so it's not a big deal.
- pinusc 2y ago
  I'd say everything you described is true of vim as well, especially nowadays with LSP and tree-sitter and async capabilities in plugins. The plugin ecosystem is thriving. Neovim's lua api makes it even easier to develop plugins. It does take a fair bit of configuration if you want to start from scratch, but there's also distributions (such as LazyVim [1]) which make it trivial to start from an editor basically as fully featured as VScode. Of course, there's still the learning curve for a modal editor, but that's the whole point of using vim. I assume there are vi-style plugins for VScode, but then you're missing out on performance. 1: https://www.lazyvim.org/ https://www.lazyvim.org/

scoopdewoop 2y ago

Why do you think your issue has anything to do with electron? That sounds like a meme. It is your drives, no? Does the browser make your system drives work a bunch? Much more likely, it is VSCode running ripgrep (rg in htop/activity monitor) in the background to find symbols in your codebase. That would be exactly the same regardless of GUI toolkit. edit: misread "system drives me bananas" as pertaining to "system drives" nvm

cyanydeez 2y ago
Its not electron, but abusing the webview rendering for realtime software'
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

wffurr 2y ago

Paper cuts like what? Deficiencies in the syntax plugins?

Vermyndax 2y ago
* Drag/drop support from Finder. * Git pre-commit chokes Sublime Merge (for some weird reason), I'm sure I can troubleshoot this but I every time I take a swing at it, it blows up in my face and I give up * Strange autocomplete issues * A few other things I forget about, but will try it again and see if I can remember

dangus 2y ago

I have like 10 separate VSCode workspaces (windows) open at all times along with 2 browsers and dozens of tabs and I never feel like my system is bogged down. In that sense I wonder if your computer just needs an upgrade? I’m not advocating for e-waste but also if you’re a developer then you’re the most justified person to invest in a beefy system. E.g., if you have any kind of Intel Mac, you absolutely should upgrade. I don’t let my computers get older than 3-5 years because compromises to my workflow aren’t worth the cost savings (I just make sure I keep them in good shape and sell them to someone who is going to continue using them). I want to choose the best software for my workflow, which is not necessarily the software that is most resource efficient (that would be like choosing MS Paint instead of Photoshop).

levodelellis 2y ago

Except for the occasional python I don't need to touch any of that. I'm the author, try looking the editor up in 3 or 6months. It may have most of the papercuts solved. I went after the big things that I had no time to implement the little

wg0 2y ago

It's the terrraform part of the LSP that's buggy and there's an issue open for that on Terraform extension's GitHub repo.

Vermyndax 2y ago
Yeah, the LSP does seem to go through some seriously bad days/weeks.

prmph 2y ago

Exactly. Talk about something as simple as code folding. VsCode does the best job of it I know, and yet the other day it simply stopped working properly for pure JS code, not sure if that's because Microsoft prefers we use Typescript instead of JS. Nothing I did fixed it, and something as simple as that messes us with your workflow. And then I remember that VSCode has introduced a recent bug where after you collapse a piece of code, the file jumps to a weird location. And other paper cuts too numerous to mention, which seems to appear and go randomly So I tried Sublime text again, only to find that "Collaspe All" does not work properly by design, whatever the reason for that. And it still insists on making many things un-ergonomic. So I try Webstorm again, and after a few tweaks, it seems to do pretty much what I want. But, it is dog slow, and the display of collapsed comments is a bit weird. I start thinking of writing my own code editor... My point is pretty much this: The various advanced code editors spend so much effort on advanced features, but they forget that the basic must work flawlessly for most devs to have a good experience. I wish they focused on the basics again to make common sue cases frictionless.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
My guess is we have have a different 10% that we consider common use cases. Much the same way folks complain about Microsoft Office being bloated.