5 ms·

Frances I think was worried about his legacy disappearing with DSM-5, because there was a big push to change things in a major way compared to DSM-IV. Ultimatel

Frances I think was worried about his legacy disappearing with DSM-5, because there was a big push to change things in a major way compared to DSM-IV. Ultimately I don't think that really happened; DSM-5 was a change but not the radical change I think the chairs and primary committees wanted it to be. Frances' flooding of media outlets around that time was sort of strange in certain ways. He seemed to correctly identify potential problems in the mental healthcare system but then had this idea that changing things in the DSM to address some of its issues would make everything worse. It felt as if he was co-opting concerns everyone was having to argue for not changing anything at all, and in the process turned everything on its head. The DSM is a very political document with a lot of interest groups involved at all levels, which is why it didn't change even more than it did. As a result, you had NIMH circumvent the whole process with RDoC, which then in turn seems to have had a relatively short life (maybe?) associated with changeover in its own administration. It feels as if everyone has their own schema for thinking about mental illness, and the whole field moves along without any serious consequences. There's probably a lot of reasons for this, including scientific and medical sociology, and the complexity of mental wellness and illness as a domain. But it makes me wonder if some of the distinctions that are argued to be critical are really that critical in the end.

cutoffyrdck 2y ago
[flagged]
- swores 2y ago
  The anti-trans arguments are the same as the anti-gay arguments from 40 years ago. High suicide numbers in a group of people constantly harassed in the media and in real life doesn't prove that their healthcare caused it. It's just sad bigotry.
  - transkillskids 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - swores 2y ago
      I'm not looking to have an argument about this bigotry, just needed to leave the actual common sense statement so yours didn't stand alone. Maybe consider that if other people are flagging you it's because your views are objectionable rather than because you're one of the few people to know the truth about a subject you have no actual experience of. Speak to some trans people to educate yourself.
  - gunchly 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - swores 2y ago
      40 years ago you'd have been telling me that seeing homosexual couples hold hands and kiss is unnatural and requires the whole of society to believe an unnatural lie that they aren't just horrible perverts. In both cases, a minority of people have non-mainstream feelings/understanding of their own gender or sexuality, and therefore wish to do things that affect their own body and either nobody else's (trans) or that only affect other people who feel the same way (gay). In both cases, people have argued that it's immoral, that it's about grooming children, and that the external visibility of being gay/trans - either seeing two people of the same gender holding hands, or kissing, or choosing to live their life together openly, or seeing someone who you once thought was one gender but has asked to be called the other gender and to be allowed to dress and act as culture considers "normal" for that gender. In both cases, it turns out that actually, no, these gay or trans (or any combination of the LGBTQ - many trans people identify as trans AND gay, it's not a case of gay people choosing to be trans to become straight as I've seen claimed) people roaming the streets doesn't make your life worse, it doesn't trick kids into thinking about sex too early any more than a married straight couple bringing a new baby into the world does, and telling kids that it's OK to be gay, and that it's OK to be trans, doesn't lead to more kids "deciding" to be gay or trans it just leads to more people admitting it rather than staying in the closet. Trans kids and gay kids aren't making a decision, any more than you never made a decision to be your birth gender, nor did you make a decision to be gay or not. Trans rights are human rights, and while I'm not trans if I decided tomorrow to get surgery to remove my penis and ask everyone to call me "she/her", how exactly does that affect you or anybody else any more than if I continue to have the gay sex I so often enjoy?
      - gunchly 2y ago
        [flagged]
        swores 2y ago

cutoffyrdck 2y ago

[flagged]

swores 2y ago
The anti-trans arguments are the same as the anti-gay arguments from 40 years ago. High suicide numbers in a group of people constantly harassed in the media and in real life doesn't prove that their healthcare caused it. It's just sad bigotry.
- transkillskids 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - swores 2y ago
    I'm not looking to have an argument about this bigotry, just needed to leave the actual common sense statement so yours didn't stand alone. Maybe consider that if other people are flagging you it's because your views are objectionable rather than because you're one of the few people to know the truth about a subject you have no actual experience of. Speak to some trans people to educate yourself.
- gunchly 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - swores 2y ago
    40 years ago you'd have been telling me that seeing homosexual couples hold hands and kiss is unnatural and requires the whole of society to believe an unnatural lie that they aren't just horrible perverts. In both cases, a minority of people have non-mainstream feelings/understanding of their own gender or sexuality, and therefore wish to do things that affect their own body and either nobody else's (trans) or that only affect other people who feel the same way (gay). In both cases, people have argued that it's immoral, that it's about grooming children, and that the external visibility of being gay/trans - either seeing two people of the same gender holding hands, or kissing, or choosing to live their life together openly, or seeing someone who you once thought was one gender but has asked to be called the other gender and to be allowed to dress and act as culture considers "normal" for that gender. In both cases, it turns out that actually, no, these gay or trans (or any combination of the LGBTQ - many trans people identify as trans AND gay, it's not a case of gay people choosing to be trans to become straight as I've seen claimed) people roaming the streets doesn't make your life worse, it doesn't trick kids into thinking about sex too early any more than a married straight couple bringing a new baby into the world does, and telling kids that it's OK to be gay, and that it's OK to be trans, doesn't lead to more kids "deciding" to be gay or trans it just leads to more people admitting it rather than staying in the closet. Trans kids and gay kids aren't making a decision, any more than you never made a decision to be your birth gender, nor did you make a decision to be gay or not. Trans rights are human rights, and while I'm not trans if I decided tomorrow to get surgery to remove my penis and ask everyone to call me "she/her", how exactly does that affect you or anybody else any more than if I continue to have the gay sex I so often enjoy?
    - gunchly 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - swores 2y ago