16 ms·

If IBM weren't hostile to the Hercules project and allowed local licensing to run z/OS, CICS, IMS and DB2 on it, perhaps more hobbyists would want to careerpath

If IBM weren't hostile to the Hercules project and allowed local licensing to run z/OS, CICS, IMS and DB2 on it, perhaps more hobbyists would want to careerpath themselves on to the s390 architecture. I do love the s390 arch and the massive IO hardware over there, but IBM has paywalled down entry so hard that there is no audience. They even went to the trouble of making Go binaries transportable for direct execution under z/OS. But if you want new people to write code on the platform you need to make access to the platform a thing.

CanaryLayout 2y ago
And no, the paywalled IBM Cloud LPARs are a joke. The mainframe is not a special thing anymore, hasn't been since the late 90s. It's just a server box. I work at a shop with a z/14. I would love it if we finished the last COBOL retirements and go back to the mainframe but this time to run container farms, fresh Go code, and use thr power to run way deeper matrices of tests that take days to run locally and cannot afford to run on AWS.
- CanaryLayout 2y ago
  IBM could sell the future of the on premises z/xxx boxes as "datacenter in one rack" Running x86 in z/VM has been a discussion for 25 years. Just fucking do it. Let people run whatever they want. Just as people are excited about ARM for low-watt computing, make s390x just as exciting for people who want insane vertical resources but using the same dev tools that are used now for easy x86/ARM crossover. But IBM culture has always been about overcharging a small and rich audience and now they are sitting around hocking their services cohosted thru AWS and everyone who has COBOL and 360ASM running are doing retirements with no plans to use the boxes after its all unloaded.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    > Just as people are excited about ARM for low-watt computing, make s390x just as exciting for people who want insane vertical resources but using the same dev tools that are used now for easy x86/ARM crossover. The funny thing is that AIUI the technology is already basically there. They actually did throw the resources into getting a lot of Open Source software to be compatible with s390x, they've got Linux LPARs and LinuxONE. My understanding is that they just... don't make any effort to sell, outside a tiny fraction of Enterprise™.
  - my123 2y ago
    Performance per dollar and per watt of IBM machines are wholly out of step with the market. As such, there's no motivation to re-use those machines after migration off z/OS or other IBM solutions anyway...
gnum4n 2y ago
Former P-series/AIX SME here. I agree 100%. IBM's training programs are a joke. P-series and mainframe machines have a lot of cool tech, and they're very resilient. They can even lose a CPU or some RAM and keep running. x86 systems would more likely freeze/crash immediately. But the only reason I know P-series/AIX at all is because one small branch of IBM hired me for my linux skills back in 2011, and I learned on the job. But I quit after 5 years, because the pay wasn't sustainable. The machines are too expensive to play around with otherwise. If you learn by doing (which seems vital to be a good sysadmin or programmer), even a license to use AIX is out of the hobbyist's price range. Training courses are limited lab environments. You won't get nearly as much out of that as you would from a 12-month AWS subscription, or a $5/month VPS, or an x86 virtual machine, or a raspberry pi. etc, etc. And IBM ended their developer machine licensing. So now employers can't even afford to maintain extra P-series machines for devs/sysadmins to play around with and learn. But don't worry, IBM will keep shooting their feet off until they no longer exist. There will likely be a panic, similar to Y2K, where everyone's feverishly re-writing and porting and emulating and migrating things off of IBM iron and onto x86 machines.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  This is why they bought RedHat.
  - pinewurst 2y ago
    And now that they’re McKinsey-izing Redhat, one can see the IBM footgun is still firing away.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - 1letterunixname 2y ago
      IBM: Footgunning before the XT and before the Republican conformity dress code when it was cool to enable genocidal regimes for money. IBM is the quintessential big, dumb company that innovates in spurts and then is a perpetual loser because of all of its corporate bs.

CanaryLayout 2y ago

And no, the paywalled IBM Cloud LPARs are a joke. The mainframe is not a special thing anymore, hasn't been since the late 90s. It's just a server box. I work at a shop with a z/14. I would love it if we finished the last COBOL retirements and go back to the mainframe but this time to run container farms, fresh Go code, and use thr power to run way deeper matrices of tests that take days to run locally and cannot afford to run on AWS.

CanaryLayout 2y ago
IBM could sell the future of the on premises z/xxx boxes as "datacenter in one rack" Running x86 in z/VM has been a discussion for 25 years. Just fucking do it. Let people run whatever they want. Just as people are excited about ARM for low-watt computing, make s390x just as exciting for people who want insane vertical resources but using the same dev tools that are used now for easy x86/ARM crossover. But IBM culture has always been about overcharging a small and rich audience and now they are sitting around hocking their services cohosted thru AWS and everyone who has COBOL and 360ASM running are doing retirements with no plans to use the boxes after its all unloaded.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  > Just as people are excited about ARM for low-watt computing, make s390x just as exciting for people who want insane vertical resources but using the same dev tools that are used now for easy x86/ARM crossover. The funny thing is that AIUI the technology is already basically there. They actually did throw the resources into getting a lot of Open Source software to be compatible with s390x, they've got Linux LPARs and LinuxONE. My understanding is that they just... don't make any effort to sell, outside a tiny fraction of Enterprise™.
- my123 2y ago
  Performance per dollar and per watt of IBM machines are wholly out of step with the market. As such, there's no motivation to re-use those machines after migration off z/OS or other IBM solutions anyway...

gnum4n 2y ago

Former P-series/AIX SME here. I agree 100%. IBM's training programs are a joke. P-series and mainframe machines have a lot of cool tech, and they're very resilient. They can even lose a CPU or some RAM and keep running. x86 systems would more likely freeze/crash immediately. But the only reason I know P-series/AIX at all is because one small branch of IBM hired me for my linux skills back in 2011, and I learned on the job. But I quit after 5 years, because the pay wasn't sustainable. The machines are too expensive to play around with otherwise. If you learn by doing (which seems vital to be a good sysadmin or programmer), even a license to use AIX is out of the hobbyist's price range. Training courses are limited lab environments. You won't get nearly as much out of that as you would from a 12-month AWS subscription, or a $5/month VPS, or an x86 virtual machine, or a raspberry pi. etc, etc. And IBM ended their developer machine licensing. So now employers can't even afford to maintain extra P-series machines for devs/sysadmins to play around with and learn. But don't worry, IBM will keep shooting their feet off until they no longer exist. There will likely be a panic, similar to Y2K, where everyone's feverishly re-writing and porting and emulating and migrating things off of IBM iron and onto x86 machines.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
This is why they bought RedHat.
- pinewurst 2y ago
  And now that they’re McKinsey-izing Redhat, one can see the IBM footgun is still firing away.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - 1letterunixname 2y ago
    IBM: Footgunning before the XT and before the Republican conformity dress code when it was cool to enable genocidal regimes for money. IBM is the quintessential big, dumb company that innovates in spurts and then is a perpetual loser because of all of its corporate bs.