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Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. Basically the right wing’s latest boogeymen to scare up their base. Think how “woke” has been co-opted and used by pundits to make

Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. Basically the right wing’s latest boogeymen to scare up their base. Think how “woke” has been co-opted and used by pundits to make people angry.

rayiner 2y ago
You’ve got the causality reversed. What “makes people angry” is what certain progressives believe and say and do. Co-opting the label “woke” just gives people a way to communicate about those ideas; it doesn’t create the anger. Nor does it refer to a “boogeyman”—those ideas definitely exist and aren’t made up, regardless of what you choose to label them: https://web.archive.org/web/20211108155321/https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/please-just-fucking-tell-me-what https://web.archive.org/web/20211108155321/https://freddiede...
- tomrod 2y ago
  That doesn't make intellectually honest people angry though?
  - rayiner 2y ago
    My litmus test for what’s real versus manufactured outrage is running things by my CNN-watching, Biden-voting immigrant parents. Most woke ideas get a derisive snort from my dad, though he’s quite worked up over racial preferences, affinity groups, and the idea that you can’t be racist towards whites. My mom, meanwhile, got very worked up over the 2020 riots and mass immigration from Latin America. She approvingly texted me Trump’s ban on DEI trainings in the federal government. These are people who consume zero right wing content, so it’s not like they’re being socialized to be mad about stuff that they wouldn’t otherwise be mad about. In fact it’s the opposite—they would be madder if CNN wasn’t careful to hide the full scope of what woke people think and believe.
    - jodleif 2y ago
      What is this full scope?
      - rayiner 2y ago
        For example the collection of beliefs that led Google to engineer an AI that draws pictures of black Nazis. That did percolate up to CNN, because it was so silly. But all the stuff that these engineers learned about race in college that led them to make the AI this way doesn’t make it to CNN.
        jodleif 2y ago
        What are you talking about? Be specific? What beliefs?
        rayiner 2y ago
        This is like asking a Roman to "be specific" in describing early Christianity (and doing so in a couple of sentences). What, like you're not seeing what I'm seeing? But let's pick one example: woke people believe that skin-color diversity is both meaningful and a good thing in and of itself. They would say that, all else being equal, a group of people with a mix of races is better than a group of white people, even if there was no evidence that the white group was that way due to discrimination.
        jodleif 2y ago
        Do they? I thought the woke thing was more about discrimination, but I don’t know much about this. The statement makes sense though, why do you think it’s wrong?
        rayiner 2y ago
        “Discrimination is bad” is what we learned in the 1990s. “Woke” is a label we use to refer to this new thing we have now: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2007308/northwestern-universitys-interim-dean-admits-to-being-a-racist-during-digital-town-hall/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2007308/northwestern... The statement is wrong because skin color is superficial and meaningless. Here’s a thought experiment: say you have a group of white people, and then I (a “brown” person) join them. Woke thought posits that, through added “diversity,” the group has become “stronger.” But to be “stronger” it must be “different.” What non-superficial characteristic about me are you inferring about me that leads you to conclude I changed the group by joining it? Any answer to that is going to be racist.
- metabagel 2y ago
  The anger comes from the discomfort that people have (some more than others) with change.
  - Spark_Ed 2y ago
    A useful idiot blissfully thinks they're changing the world for the better while installing a Party member to enforce "Equity" on the unwilling.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    People propose lots of changes, most get shot down and rejected by society because they’re bad ideas. Go look at all the dead-end ideas from the 1960s. Most of what falls within the umbrella of “woke” today will meet the same fate. For example, I’m pretty sure that 10 years from now the racial affinity groups in my 5th grader’s school are going to be an embarrassing idea liberals will pretend never happened, rather than being the future of race relations in America.
  - JamesBarney 2y ago
    Anger comes from change they perceive to be bad.

Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. Basically the right wing’s latest boogeymen to scare up their base. Think how “woke” has been co-opted and used by pundits to make people angry.

rayiner 2y ago

You’ve got the causality reversed. What “makes people angry” is what certain progressives believe and say and do. Co-opting the label “woke” just gives people a way to communicate about those ideas; it doesn’t create the anger. Nor does it refer to a “boogeyman”—those ideas definitely exist and aren’t made up, regardless of what you choose to label them: https://web.archive.org/web/20211108155321/https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/please-just-fucking-tell-me-what https://web.archive.org/web/20211108155321/https://freddiede...

tomrod 2y ago
That doesn't make intellectually honest people angry though?
- rayiner 2y ago
  My litmus test for what’s real versus manufactured outrage is running things by my CNN-watching, Biden-voting immigrant parents. Most woke ideas get a derisive snort from my dad, though he’s quite worked up over racial preferences, affinity groups, and the idea that you can’t be racist towards whites. My mom, meanwhile, got very worked up over the 2020 riots and mass immigration from Latin America. She approvingly texted me Trump’s ban on DEI trainings in the federal government. These are people who consume zero right wing content, so it’s not like they’re being socialized to be mad about stuff that they wouldn’t otherwise be mad about. In fact it’s the opposite—they would be madder if CNN wasn’t careful to hide the full scope of what woke people think and believe.
  - jodleif 2y ago
    What is this full scope?
    - rayiner 2y ago
      For example the collection of beliefs that led Google to engineer an AI that draws pictures of black Nazis. That did percolate up to CNN, because it was so silly. But all the stuff that these engineers learned about race in college that led them to make the AI this way doesn’t make it to CNN.
      - jodleif 2y ago
        What are you talking about? Be specific? What beliefs?
        rayiner 2y ago
        This is like asking a Roman to "be specific" in describing early Christianity (and doing so in a couple of sentences). What, like you're not seeing what I'm seeing? But let's pick one example: woke people believe that skin-color diversity is both meaningful and a good thing in and of itself. They would say that, all else being equal, a group of people with a mix of races is better than a group of white people, even if there was no evidence that the white group was that way due to discrimination.
        jodleif 2y ago
        Do they? I thought the woke thing was more about discrimination, but I don’t know much about this. The statement makes sense though, why do you think it’s wrong?
        rayiner 2y ago
        “Discrimination is bad” is what we learned in the 1990s. “Woke” is a label we use to refer to this new thing we have now: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2007308/northwestern-universitys-interim-dean-admits-to-being-a-racist-during-digital-town-hall/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2007308/northwestern... The statement is wrong because skin color is superficial and meaningless. Here’s a thought experiment: say you have a group of white people, and then I (a “brown” person) join them. Woke thought posits that, through added “diversity,” the group has become “stronger.” But to be “stronger” it must be “different.” What non-superficial characteristic about me are you inferring about me that leads you to conclude I changed the group by joining it? Any answer to that is going to be racist.
metabagel 2y ago
The anger comes from the discomfort that people have (some more than others) with change.
- Spark_Ed 2y ago
  A useful idiot blissfully thinks they're changing the world for the better while installing a Party member to enforce "Equity" on the unwilling.
- rayiner 2y ago
  People propose lots of changes, most get shot down and rejected by society because they’re bad ideas. Go look at all the dead-end ideas from the 1960s. Most of what falls within the umbrella of “woke” today will meet the same fate. For example, I’m pretty sure that 10 years from now the racial affinity groups in my 5th grader’s school are going to be an embarrassing idea liberals will pretend never happened, rather than being the future of race relations in America.
- JamesBarney 2y ago
  Anger comes from change they perceive to be bad.