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There’s a flip side to this. If you change the UI for no reason, people get upset. For example, the latest iOS update flipped the speaker and mute buttons dur

There’s a flip side to this. If you change the UI for no reason, people get upset. For example, the latest iOS update flipped the speaker and mute buttons during a call. Why? No improvement was made, it’s just frustrating.

zootboy 2y ago
I'd go a step further: if you change the UI for no functional reason, you are a bad person who is causing needless consternation, confusion, and productivity loss. Even if you believe you have a functional reason, you had better think really long and hard about whether the supposed improvement you want is worth the pain of every single user needing to adapt to that change.
- hackable_sand 2y ago
  Disagree. It's a lot more involved than that.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    What is more involved?
- coldtea 2y ago
  >I'd go a step further: if you change the UI for no functional reason, you are a bad person who is causing needless consternation, confusion, and productivity loss. On the flip side, who do get to be promoted.
- pizzafeelsright 2y ago
  You're telling me you released a product that was so incomplete and it requires weekly updates?
windows2020 2y ago
The next Windows version should be called Windows Legacy. Remove all the objectively (from the perspective of a non-oblivious user) stupid stuff that 10 and 11 added including half-baked UIs, extra clicks, inconsistencies, random forced changes, 'AI', etc. How many of us have encountered 'Legacy' systems that get a bad wrap but are actually responsible for everything? Eventually Legacy will have a positive connotation. So let's get to that now and resume improving the internals unless there's actually something else to do. And for those who bring up being afraid of change I propose Windows Random Change edition for you.
- buggy6257 2y ago
  > the objectively (from the perspective of a non-oblivious user) You’ll be happy to hear there’s an easier way of saying this! It’s “subjectively” If you need a shorthand you could also go with “IMO”.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    If it's only a concern of a stupid minority of people, then the parent might as well use "objective". Some people don't believe the earth is round either, but the rest of us don't consider it a "subjective" "IMO" fact.
ignoramous 2y ago
> If you change the UI for no reason... This appears to be not true for the OS (but only for Apps / websites). I'd say, for personal devices, folks expect a shiny new UI every OS update. For ex: iOS and Android are always in contention for who changes UI the most, from one version to another. Besides, styling changes and form changes are not the same.
- mech422 2y ago
  Personally, I'd prefer not to get a shiny new UI every update... I do the same things with my phone I always did, I don't want to relearn the UI/Workflow just to get back to where I started.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >I'd say, for personal devices, folks expect a shiny new UI every OS update. A 99% of folks could not care less, when they're not downright annoyed by the UI changes. There has been major reactions on UI changes (from Office, Gmail Windows, Gnome, iOS and macOS to Facebook). There have been in comparison crickets about the UI not "updating fast enough", and those are mostly from designer types (like the stupid "skeuomorphic" hoopla a decade ago). A small minority of designers and superficial people is the one making any noise about UI needing to be updated every time.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  I really enjoy UI changes on software. They feel a lot like redecorating/renovating your home. Suddenly your device feels fresh and exciting again, and usually more capable than before. As long as they aren’t broken or removing large amounts of useful functionality. The only redesign I’ve ever disliked is the Reddit one, and only because it still doesn’t work properly.
  - ignoramous 2y ago
    > redesign I’ve ever disliked is the Reddit one, and only because it still doesn’t work properly. It is amazing how they aren't able to sort it out despite all the engineering hours spent on it.
ReadCarlBarks 2y ago
Mozilla-related forums are currently full of complaints about the new design of Thunderbird. It has also flipped the UI with no option of reverting it back other than using an unsupported CSS hack: https://i.imgur.com/9xzJjtr.png https://i.imgur.com/9xzJjtr.png
- tazu 2y ago
  That sucks but it's also hilarious someone thought that was an improvement.

zootboy 2y ago

I'd go a step further: if you change the UI for no functional reason, you are a bad person who is causing needless consternation, confusion, and productivity loss. Even if you believe you have a functional reason, you had better think really long and hard about whether the supposed improvement you want is worth the pain of every single user needing to adapt to that change.

hackable_sand 2y ago
Disagree. It's a lot more involved than that.
- coldtea 2y ago
  What is more involved?
coldtea 2y ago
>I'd go a step further: if you change the UI for no functional reason, you are a bad person who is causing needless consternation, confusion, and productivity loss. On the flip side, who do get to be promoted.
pizzafeelsright 2y ago
You're telling me you released a product that was so incomplete and it requires weekly updates?

windows2020 2y ago

The next Windows version should be called Windows Legacy. Remove all the objectively (from the perspective of a non-oblivious user) stupid stuff that 10 and 11 added including half-baked UIs, extra clicks, inconsistencies, random forced changes, 'AI', etc. How many of us have encountered 'Legacy' systems that get a bad wrap but are actually responsible for everything? Eventually Legacy will have a positive connotation. So let's get to that now and resume improving the internals unless there's actually something else to do. And for those who bring up being afraid of change I propose Windows Random Change edition for you.

buggy6257 2y ago
> the objectively (from the perspective of a non-oblivious user) You’ll be happy to hear there’s an easier way of saying this! It’s “subjectively” If you need a shorthand you could also go with “IMO”.
- coldtea 2y ago
  If it's only a concern of a stupid minority of people, then the parent might as well use "objective". Some people don't believe the earth is round either, but the rest of us don't consider it a "subjective" "IMO" fact.

ignoramous 2y ago

> If you change the UI for no reason... This appears to be not true for the OS (but only for Apps / websites). I'd say, for personal devices, folks expect a shiny new UI every OS update. For ex: iOS and Android are always in contention for who changes UI the most, from one version to another. Besides, styling changes and form changes are not the same.

mech422 2y ago
Personally, I'd prefer not to get a shiny new UI every update... I do the same things with my phone I always did, I don't want to relearn the UI/Workflow just to get back to where I started.
coldtea 2y ago
>I'd say, for personal devices, folks expect a shiny new UI every OS update. A 99% of folks could not care less, when they're not downright annoyed by the UI changes. There has been major reactions on UI changes (from Office, Gmail Windows, Gnome, iOS and macOS to Facebook). There have been in comparison crickets about the UI not "updating fast enough", and those are mostly from designer types (like the stupid "skeuomorphic" hoopla a decade ago). A small minority of designers and superficial people is the one making any noise about UI needing to be updated every time.
Gigachad 2y ago
I really enjoy UI changes on software. They feel a lot like redecorating/renovating your home. Suddenly your device feels fresh and exciting again, and usually more capable than before. As long as they aren’t broken or removing large amounts of useful functionality. The only redesign I’ve ever disliked is the Reddit one, and only because it still doesn’t work properly.
- ignoramous 2y ago
  > redesign I’ve ever disliked is the Reddit one, and only because it still doesn’t work properly. It is amazing how they aren't able to sort it out despite all the engineering hours spent on it.

ReadCarlBarks 2y ago

Mozilla-related forums are currently full of complaints about the new design of Thunderbird. It has also flipped the UI with no option of reverting it back other than using an unsupported CSS hack: https://i.imgur.com/9xzJjtr.png https://i.imgur.com/9xzJjtr.png

tazu 2y ago
That sucks but it's also hilarious someone thought that was an improvement.