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Requiring infinite amounts of information to explain a finite universe? Occam's Razor comes down pretty hard on the side of "no". People have tried to explain

Requiring infinite amounts of information to explain a finite universe? Occam's Razor comes down pretty hard on the side of "no". People have tried to explain the universe with cellular automata and so far none of these systems has even been consistent with our current observations of the universe, let alone predicting some new behavior that would allow us to prove or disprove that the theory was true. (If your theory doesn't predict anything new, it's not a new theory at all!) Requiring infinite recursion of cellular automata would seem to make the whole problem much harder...

mseepgood 2y ago
Since when is the universe finite?
- krapp 2y ago
  The Big Bang involved a finite amount of energy and created a finite amount of matter. New energy cannot be created. Therefore the universe is finite.
  - Kranar 2y ago
    You're kind of just making stuff up here. In particular the assertion that the big bang involved a finite amount of energy is entirely unfounded. It's not that your statement is false, but that there is absolutely no consensus on the matter. Some physicists make strong arguments that at the big bang the total energy of the universe was 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- dekhn 2y ago
  Most current models of the universe suggest that it occupies a volume and has a finite number of particles. But these are just models based on observations and constraints.
  - Kranar 2y ago
    There is no dispute that the observable universe is as you describe, but there is absolutely no consensus as to whether the universe is finite or infinite.
    - krapp 2y ago
      The observable universe is the universe, for all intents and purposes.
      - Kranar 2y ago
        That's not true in the context of big bang cosmology. It's true that today we would not be able to observe things beyond the observable universe by definition, and so there's not much purpose in reasoning beyond today's observable universe, but the observable universe changes over time and when reasoning about the early universe there would be differences between a finite universe and an infinite universe.
Kranar 2y ago
One of the interesting takeaways of this simulation is that it isn't built upon an infinite amount of information. This simulation is a finite amount of information being used to describe an infinitely large simulation.
mistermann 2y ago
> Requiring infinite amounts of information to explain a finite universe? Occam's Razor comes down pretty hard on the side of "no". A system whose fundamental nature can be modified / controlled by ideas spawned within the system itself would be extremely cool. I think a decent argument could be made that we may be in just such a system.

mseepgood 2y ago

Since when is the universe finite?

krapp 2y ago
The Big Bang involved a finite amount of energy and created a finite amount of matter. New energy cannot be created. Therefore the universe is finite.
- Kranar 2y ago
  You're kind of just making stuff up here. In particular the assertion that the big bang involved a finite amount of energy is entirely unfounded. It's not that your statement is false, but that there is absolutely no consensus on the matter. Some physicists make strong arguments that at the big bang the total energy of the universe was 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
dekhn 2y ago
Most current models of the universe suggest that it occupies a volume and has a finite number of particles. But these are just models based on observations and constraints.
- Kranar 2y ago
  There is no dispute that the observable universe is as you describe, but there is absolutely no consensus as to whether the universe is finite or infinite.
  - krapp 2y ago
    The observable universe is the universe, for all intents and purposes.
    - Kranar 2y ago
      That's not true in the context of big bang cosmology. It's true that today we would not be able to observe things beyond the observable universe by definition, and so there's not much purpose in reasoning beyond today's observable universe, but the observable universe changes over time and when reasoning about the early universe there would be differences between a finite universe and an infinite universe.

Kranar 2y ago

One of the interesting takeaways of this simulation is that it isn't built upon an infinite amount of information. This simulation is a finite amount of information being used to describe an infinitely large simulation.

mistermann 2y ago

> Requiring infinite amounts of information to explain a finite universe? Occam's Razor comes down pretty hard on the side of "no". A system whose fundamental nature can be modified / controlled by ideas spawned within the system itself would be extremely cool. I think a decent argument could be made that we may be in just such a system.