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> Indians are tough audience to sway that way from my experience. You underestimate the power of propoganda. The fact that you think the tiktok ban was in anyw

> Indians are tough audience to sway that way from my experience. You underestimate the power of propoganda. The fact that you think the tiktok ban was in anyway related to the attack or even if was, it served as an commensurate retaliation for the attack just proves this.

srvmshr 2y ago
Your experience could vary from mine, but the average boomer in India loves having political discussion on dinner tables, stemming from what they probably read in the papers or from channel switching over the day. TikTok hardly scratches their surface. While I understand Mr. Modi has been pretty influential on media houses, there are plenty of publishers like Indian Express or Dainik Jagran (in Hindi), or TV broadcasters like NDTV, The Wire etc., who don't mind calling Modi's spade a spade. TikTok isn't the main medium of influence in India. Facebook is, and the news & views is primarily still shared there Let me show the political influencing landscape in brief: I have lived in both the aforementioned countries and I could unequivocally feel that the average Indian is more aware of political current affairs. Even if final choices could be biased on the Hinduist/nationalist leanings (which is unfortunately a relatively new dynamics), they are not blind to what is happening. Many would call Modi a crook but do not want the alternative posed by Congress and still vote for him. Religious minority appeasing and Reservation biases have been abused so badly in last 3 decades by the opposition (which was in power) that people are now blind to the agenda people like Mr. Modi exort. Their responses are mostly reactionary to lost opportunities of work/social mobility. BJP in India has been projecting itself as savior of masses by bringing in measures, which would have been undemocratic 2 decades ago (e.g Article 370 abrogation or CAA recently). This is in stark contrast to people in US growing up leaning Blue or Red all through their lives, because their family or county has always voted that. If you ask why they chose to, the answer is almost always political party loyalty (and not the agenda). Coming November we will see this again when despite of so many legal predicaments, Donald Trump might still competing hard for presidency based on traditional loyalties. TikTok is aimed at the fence-sitters in US with dramatic immigration, crime or socioeconomic shock videos. When you have a crowd that is not in know-how of current political affairs, TikTok is enough to create disruption. If you had to do that in India, probably Facebook is the weapon of choice.
- devnonymous 2y ago
  Two observations about your comment. The ^average^ Indian, the masses whose vote sway elections in India, isn't the person discussing politics around dinner tables. They come from the houses where literal dinner tables don't exist. They are the ones who votes are coerced by gifts, muscle power and increasingly propoganda. Secondly, of course the things that matter to the citizens in different countries would be different and of course the medium of propaganda in the countries are different (as an aside IMO, WhatsApp is the more influential medium in India). The topics like gun violence, abortion rights, race discrimination, health care, taxes ...etc are definitely things that get discussed about dinner tables and hold political sway in the US. The US style of 2 party system of presidential democracy and the role of electroral college are a bit problematic but the average US citizen isn't less political aware than the average Indian. My point being, your assertion that Indians are somehow less immune to propoganda, is potentially arising out of some unconscious bias (one or more of confirmation or conformity or affinity..etc biases)
  - srvmshr 2y ago
    > The US style of 2 party system of presidential democracy and the role of electroral college are a bit problematic but the average US citizen isn't less political aware than the average Indian. I don't think I will agree with you there again. But then we all have viewpoints and you can agree to disagree. I could similarly opine that you believe in a simpler, universal model of how political demagoguery works. Different populations respond to different degrees. Looking at the voting bloc supporting DJT which is strongly pro-GOP/MAGA despite the dozens of legal challenges, the attempt to insurrection and felonies - that is unprecedented in any other place. My previous neighbors in NC still believe every one of the legal case is schadenfreude, and cannot understand why J6 actions were illegal and why "elections were not stolen". This is not a single person anecdote. A lot of educated people - working as nurse, technicians, delivery people just don't understand. I don't think this is just about loyalties. There is more at play. They are oblivious to many technicalities of governance and take the campaign email's/sms bulletpoints at face value. These are the target audience for TikTok based political influencing. If the poor in India scrounging for two meals don't understand political big picture, I can excuse that. How can the recent right-wing tribalism among educated, well to do people in US explainable? I know social awareness cannot be quantified, but this perception is not just mine. The way conservative faction is getting away with its shenanigans despite so many challenges makes people everywhere else wonder why US voter factions for e.g. in Midwest and South are so so gullible & what could be done for awareness

srvmshr 2y ago

Your experience could vary from mine, but the average boomer in India loves having political discussion on dinner tables, stemming from what they probably read in the papers or from channel switching over the day. TikTok hardly scratches their surface. While I understand Mr. Modi has been pretty influential on media houses, there are plenty of publishers like Indian Express or Dainik Jagran (in Hindi), or TV broadcasters like NDTV, The Wire etc., who don't mind calling Modi's spade a spade. TikTok isn't the main medium of influence in India. Facebook is, and the news & views is primarily still shared there Let me show the political influencing landscape in brief: I have lived in both the aforementioned countries and I could unequivocally feel that the average Indian is more aware of political current affairs. Even if final choices could be biased on the Hinduist/nationalist leanings (which is unfortunately a relatively new dynamics), they are not blind to what is happening. Many would call Modi a crook but do not want the alternative posed by Congress and still vote for him. Religious minority appeasing and Reservation biases have been abused so badly in last 3 decades by the opposition (which was in power) that people are now blind to the agenda people like Mr. Modi exort. Their responses are mostly reactionary to lost opportunities of work/social mobility. BJP in India has been projecting itself as savior of masses by bringing in measures, which would have been undemocratic 2 decades ago (e.g Article 370 abrogation or CAA recently). This is in stark contrast to people in US growing up leaning Blue or Red all through their lives, because their family or county has always voted that. If you ask why they chose to, the answer is almost always political party loyalty (and not the agenda). Coming November we will see this again when despite of so many legal predicaments, Donald Trump might still competing hard for presidency based on traditional loyalties. TikTok is aimed at the fence-sitters in US with dramatic immigration, crime or socioeconomic shock videos. When you have a crowd that is not in know-how of current political affairs, TikTok is enough to create disruption. If you had to do that in India, probably Facebook is the weapon of choice.

devnonymous 2y ago
Two observations about your comment. The ^average^ Indian, the masses whose vote sway elections in India, isn't the person discussing politics around dinner tables. They come from the houses where literal dinner tables don't exist. They are the ones who votes are coerced by gifts, muscle power and increasingly propoganda. Secondly, of course the things that matter to the citizens in different countries would be different and of course the medium of propaganda in the countries are different (as an aside IMO, WhatsApp is the more influential medium in India). The topics like gun violence, abortion rights, race discrimination, health care, taxes ...etc are definitely things that get discussed about dinner tables and hold political sway in the US. The US style of 2 party system of presidential democracy and the role of electroral college are a bit problematic but the average US citizen isn't less political aware than the average Indian. My point being, your assertion that Indians are somehow less immune to propoganda, is potentially arising out of some unconscious bias (one or more of confirmation or conformity or affinity..etc biases)
- srvmshr 2y ago
  > The US style of 2 party system of presidential democracy and the role of electroral college are a bit problematic but the average US citizen isn't less political aware than the average Indian. I don't think I will agree with you there again. But then we all have viewpoints and you can agree to disagree. I could similarly opine that you believe in a simpler, universal model of how political demagoguery works. Different populations respond to different degrees. Looking at the voting bloc supporting DJT which is strongly pro-GOP/MAGA despite the dozens of legal challenges, the attempt to insurrection and felonies - that is unprecedented in any other place. My previous neighbors in NC still believe every one of the legal case is schadenfreude, and cannot understand why J6 actions were illegal and why "elections were not stolen". This is not a single person anecdote. A lot of educated people - working as nurse, technicians, delivery people just don't understand. I don't think this is just about loyalties. There is more at play. They are oblivious to many technicalities of governance and take the campaign email's/sms bulletpoints at face value. These are the target audience for TikTok based political influencing. If the poor in India scrounging for two meals don't understand political big picture, I can excuse that. How can the recent right-wing tribalism among educated, well to do people in US explainable? I know social awareness cannot be quantified, but this perception is not just mine. The way conservative faction is getting away with its shenanigans despite so many challenges makes people everywhere else wonder why US voter factions for e.g. in Midwest and South are so so gullible & what could be done for awareness