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"I really hope US cities head in this direction" The US is headed on the path of autonomous vehicles as the solution. It's the perfect combination of things ou

"I really hope US cities head in this direction" The US is headed on the path of autonomous vehicles as the solution. It's the perfect combination of things our society loves: 1) No new public investment. 2) Continuous, end-to-end air conditioning

twoWhlsGud 3y ago
Done properly (I know…) autonomous vehicles could be a godsend for cycling in the US. If vehicles behaved properly you wouldn't theoretically need cycling infrastructure at all – the dream of vehicular cycling would actually start working and you could share the road anywhere.
- beppuboy 3y ago
  +100...I love driving and will miss it with autonomous cars but I like being able to ride my bike without being nearly killed in the city every week. Autonomous cars (assuming they're trained to deal with bikes) would be a massive benefit I'm keeping my fingers crossed for.
- trgn 3y ago
  the aspirational future of AI-traffic is kei cars and vans puttering around. Hope to see it in my lifetime still.
HEmanZ 3y ago
I suspect the US is going to get a super bifurcated urbanist result across cities in the next 20 years. Places like NYC, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco (maybe not these exact cities but you get the gist) are going to move strong towards European style urban infrastructure. It seems to be one topic that really does mobilize voters, especially younger educated voters, in these cities. It will in turn attract a lot more of these kinds of people, accelerating the change. The rest of the US is just going to double down on sprawl.
- lotsoweiners 3y ago
  Those cities you mentioned already have European style urban infrastructure. In my opinion the big difference is that the drivers in the European cities seemed crazier than their US counterparts.
  - HEmanZ 3y ago
    That’s interesting. I’m a born and raised American, but I lived in two different European countries (Oslo and Geneva) between 2014 and 2017. During that time I traveled all over Western Europe and the near east for fun and business, and besides 2020-21 I have vacationed in Europe once or twice per year when not living there. Old Soviet Europe drives pretty crazy, but other than that I have not encountered anywhere else in Europe with drivers as crazy as the US. They have very different norms in Europe that Americans might confuse as crazy but are actually better habits IMO. E.g drivers in Florence and Rome followed few rules and basically drive by the “if it fits, it fits” manta. But they were always keenly aware of pedestrians and other drivers. They drive very light cars in streets where they can’t get above 15 mph. Even if they do get into more fender-benders, I’m not very concerned about a fiat hitting my car at 15mph. In short, their way of driving is safer and I feel much more comfortable around it. Americans on the other hand seem to prefer deadly speeds in giant vehicles even in neighborhoods. My current neighborhood regularly sees F150s and King Ranches going 55+mph, on neighborhood streets. I saw a driver last year hit a dog they should have clearly seen and avoided because they were going about 45 mph and on their phone, they didn’t even slow down after they hit the dog. Americans regularly pretend pedestrians and obstacles don’t exist at all, and have way worse reaction times than what I saw living in Europe. Combined with the high speeds and heavy cars, driving is comfortable for the driver and terrifying for everyone else on and around the roads. I also wouldn’t compare these American cities infrastructure to most European cities of the late 2010s. Excepting possibly NYC, which is sort of its own league in the US. Maybe they are comparable to the European cities of the 90s, but things have moved on a lot since then.
  - mbs159 3y ago
    >Those cities you mentioned already have European style urban infrastructure. I hope you're joking. it's very rare to see a highway wider than 6 lanes in Europe, especially that runs through cities, whilst the aforementioned cities have a abundance of such monstrosities.
doctor_phil 3y ago
I don't get the American fixation of cars. Isn't public roads a mild form of communism?
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Imperialism rather.
- NegativeLatency 3y ago
  Lots of money has been successfully spent on convincing Americans that car ownership directly makes them more free. Car == freedom This is sorta true in part (in some places) because other options like walk/bike/bus/train have been so disinvested that in many places you really do need to own a car to get around with any level of dignity. It does seem to be changing on larger US cities though, so I’m hopeful.
- ThunderSizzle 3y ago
  Freedom of movement. Cars represent freedom of movement akin to a horse with a trailer, except you have an engine instead of a horse. I dont think Americans care for the current road monopoly states have, or the monopolistic tolls and enforcement. The idea of freedom of movement isn't really a European-centric ideal - its more uniquely American and derived from being a nation derived from those escaping injustices of Europe and searching freedom and liberty. With the history of Europe being based in serfdom - peasants being forced to work their lord's land for protection - the idea of freedom of movement never really seemed to be of importance. Those who deemed it important probably emigrated from Europe to America.
  - milkytron 3y ago
    I agree, but for those that truly value freedom, I would think that they would also value the freedom of choice. Car dependent societies don't allow many choices, you are restricted to only choosing a car for transportation.
    - pandaman 3y ago
al_borland 3y ago
Autonomous vehicles will make traffic worse, not better. Now we won’t even need people in cars to create traffic.
NegativeLatency 3y ago
3) A technical solution to a societal problem
rangestransform 3y ago
I would definitely prefer end to end AC over cycling in >30c heat

twoWhlsGud 3y ago

Done properly (I know…) autonomous vehicles could be a godsend for cycling in the US. If vehicles behaved properly you wouldn't theoretically need cycling infrastructure at all – the dream of vehicular cycling would actually start working and you could share the road anywhere.

beppuboy 3y ago
+100...I love driving and will miss it with autonomous cars but I like being able to ride my bike without being nearly killed in the city every week. Autonomous cars (assuming they're trained to deal with bikes) would be a massive benefit I'm keeping my fingers crossed for.
trgn 3y ago
the aspirational future of AI-traffic is kei cars and vans puttering around. Hope to see it in my lifetime still.

HEmanZ 3y ago

I suspect the US is going to get a super bifurcated urbanist result across cities in the next 20 years. Places like NYC, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco (maybe not these exact cities but you get the gist) are going to move strong towards European style urban infrastructure. It seems to be one topic that really does mobilize voters, especially younger educated voters, in these cities. It will in turn attract a lot more of these kinds of people, accelerating the change. The rest of the US is just going to double down on sprawl.

lotsoweiners 3y ago
Those cities you mentioned already have European style urban infrastructure. In my opinion the big difference is that the drivers in the European cities seemed crazier than their US counterparts.
- HEmanZ 3y ago
  That’s interesting. I’m a born and raised American, but I lived in two different European countries (Oslo and Geneva) between 2014 and 2017. During that time I traveled all over Western Europe and the near east for fun and business, and besides 2020-21 I have vacationed in Europe once or twice per year when not living there. Old Soviet Europe drives pretty crazy, but other than that I have not encountered anywhere else in Europe with drivers as crazy as the US. They have very different norms in Europe that Americans might confuse as crazy but are actually better habits IMO. E.g drivers in Florence and Rome followed few rules and basically drive by the “if it fits, it fits” manta. But they were always keenly aware of pedestrians and other drivers. They drive very light cars in streets where they can’t get above 15 mph. Even if they do get into more fender-benders, I’m not very concerned about a fiat hitting my car at 15mph. In short, their way of driving is safer and I feel much more comfortable around it. Americans on the other hand seem to prefer deadly speeds in giant vehicles even in neighborhoods. My current neighborhood regularly sees F150s and King Ranches going 55+mph, on neighborhood streets. I saw a driver last year hit a dog they should have clearly seen and avoided because they were going about 45 mph and on their phone, they didn’t even slow down after they hit the dog. Americans regularly pretend pedestrians and obstacles don’t exist at all, and have way worse reaction times than what I saw living in Europe. Combined with the high speeds and heavy cars, driving is comfortable for the driver and terrifying for everyone else on and around the roads. I also wouldn’t compare these American cities infrastructure to most European cities of the late 2010s. Excepting possibly NYC, which is sort of its own league in the US. Maybe they are comparable to the European cities of the 90s, but things have moved on a lot since then.
- mbs159 3y ago
  >Those cities you mentioned already have European style urban infrastructure. I hope you're joking. it's very rare to see a highway wider than 6 lanes in Europe, especially that runs through cities, whilst the aforementioned cities have a abundance of such monstrosities.

doctor_phil 3y ago

I don't get the American fixation of cars. Isn't public roads a mild form of communism?

carlosjobim 3y ago
Imperialism rather.
NegativeLatency 3y ago
Lots of money has been successfully spent on convincing Americans that car ownership directly makes them more free. Car == freedom This is sorta true in part (in some places) because other options like walk/bike/bus/train have been so disinvested that in many places you really do need to own a car to get around with any level of dignity. It does seem to be changing on larger US cities though, so I’m hopeful.
ThunderSizzle 3y ago
Freedom of movement. Cars represent freedom of movement akin to a horse with a trailer, except you have an engine instead of a horse. I dont think Americans care for the current road monopoly states have, or the monopolistic tolls and enforcement. The idea of freedom of movement isn't really a European-centric ideal - its more uniquely American and derived from being a nation derived from those escaping injustices of Europe and searching freedom and liberty. With the history of Europe being based in serfdom - peasants being forced to work their lord's land for protection - the idea of freedom of movement never really seemed to be of importance. Those who deemed it important probably emigrated from Europe to America.
- milkytron 3y ago
  I agree, but for those that truly value freedom, I would think that they would also value the freedom of choice. Car dependent societies don't allow many choices, you are restricted to only choosing a car for transportation.
  - pandaman 3y ago

al_borland 3y ago

Autonomous vehicles will make traffic worse, not better. Now we won’t even need people in cars to create traffic.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

3) A technical solution to a societal problem

rangestransform 3y ago

I would definitely prefer end to end AC over cycling in >30c heat