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UK and Australia has universal healthcare and doesn’t tax entry level people that highly.

andyst 3y ago
the australian economy digs up dirt from the ground and sells it for a lot, it covers all our issues. theres a lot more that could be said, but it fundamentally comes down to that
rayiner 3y ago
The UK system is going broke, and Australia and Canada are weirdly efficient with their government spending and the US has no hope of matching them. I don’t think we could implement universal healthcare and education as efficiently as Italy. We are basically the richest Latin American country at this point.
- skissane 3y ago
  > The UK system is going broke, and Australia and Canada are weirdly efficient with their government spending and the US has no hope of matching them. I don’t think we could implement universal healthcare and education as efficiently as Italy. We are basically the richest Latin American country at this point. I wonder what explains their being "weirdly efficient"? The most obvious difference is the parliamentary instead of a presidential system (also found in most of Latin America). Maybe what the US really needs is a Prime Minister? [0] There's a lot more ways in which the Australian and Canadian systems differ from the US (and also from each other), but I think that's the most obvious one. Although that doesn't explain the UK's "going broke", since it has a parliamentary system too. Possible explanation: the UK lacks federalism [1], the US has overly strong federalism, Australia and Canada are more in the "sweet spot" in the middle of the federalism spectrum [0] doesn't require a monarchy, a Prime Minister can coexist with a figurehead President, as in Austria, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Malta, etc [1] ok, it has devolution, which while technically not federalism, is kind of like a very weak form of it
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Both Canada and Australia have strong federalism. About half of all expenditure is run through the state and local governments in the US. In Australia it’s similar, and in Canada it’s 75%. I think the Presidential system has a lot to do with it. The people have a lot to do with it too. Large-scale immigration of Germans, then Irish and Italians, and now Hispanics has left a long tradition of ethnic machine politics in the U.S. that’s simply absent from Canadian and Australian politics. Even as say distinct Italian or Irish identity has diminished, our politics, especially on the left, is still centered around identity. In a typical national election, almost no political bandwidth is spent discussing efficiency of government services. Look at Obama—the archetype of the modern Democrat. What was his job before politics? He wasn’t a labor leader or anything like that. He was a community organizer in Chicago’s ethnic-based political machine. He’s inspired a generation of people on the left—necessarily, the ones who would otherwise be most invested in government efficiency and quality of services—to become activists for their various identity groups. Do you think those folks are going to become efficient and confident administrators when they grow up?
    - skissane 3y ago
      > Both Canada and Australia have strong federalism. About half of all expenditure is run through the state and local governments in the US. In Australia it’s similar, and in Canada it’s 75%. Just looking at who spends the money ignores some big differences. For example, unlike the US, Australia has a unified court and criminal justice system - the federal courts have jurisdiction to hear appeals even on purely state law questions; there are no federal prisons (federal prisoners serve their sentences in state prisons); outside of the military, almost all federal criminal trials happen in state courts (technically some federal courts have the jurisdiction to hold criminal trials, but that almost never happens-federal courts do try civil cases, but in criminal matters are effectively appellate only); state prosecutors can prosecute federal crimes and federal prosecutors can prosecute state crimes (common for federal prosecutors to add on lesser state charges and vice versa) Australia has institutions like the National Cabinet (council of heads of federal, state and territory governments) which have no parallel in the US-“cooperative federalism”. Formal agreements between the federal and state governments plays a big role in Australia’s federalism, lacks much of an equivalent in the US-e.g. Australia’s food safety system is governed by an agreement between Australia’s federal, state and territory governments, and also the national government of New Zealand. > The people have a lot to do with it too. Large-scale immigration of Germans, then Irish and Italians, and now Hispanics has left a long tradition of ethnic machine politics in the U.S. that’s simply absent from Canadian and Australian politics. Even as say distinct Italian or Irish identity has diminished, our politics, especially on the left, is still centered around identity Last time you made an argument like this, I pointed out it ignores the importance of figures like Daniel Mannix (Irish Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne, 1917-1963) and B.A.Santamaria (Italian Catholic anti-communist activist; his height of political influence was in the 1950s) in Australia’s political history - between them those two men changed the outcome of more than one national election And as to Canada, this argument of yours ignores the existence of Quebec, and also the (lesser) role that Anglophone-Francophone conflict has played in the history of some other provinces (e.g. New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba) > What was his job before politics? He wasn’t a labor leader or anything like that. He was a community organizer in Chicago’s ethnic-based political machine. Ethnic-based political organising exists in Australia too. For example, both major parties have done a lot of work on wooing the Chinese-Australian community, which includes interacting with that community’s social clubs, doing political interviews in Chinese language media, sometimes even running candidates from that background, etc

the australian economy digs up dirt from the ground and sells it for a lot, it covers all our issues. theres a lot more that could be said, but it fundamentally comes down to that

rayiner 3y ago

The UK system is going broke, and Australia and Canada are weirdly efficient with their government spending and the US has no hope of matching them. I don’t think we could implement universal healthcare and education as efficiently as Italy. We are basically the richest Latin American country at this point.

skissane 3y ago
> The UK system is going broke, and Australia and Canada are weirdly efficient with their government spending and the US has no hope of matching them. I don’t think we could implement universal healthcare and education as efficiently as Italy. We are basically the richest Latin American country at this point. I wonder what explains their being "weirdly efficient"? The most obvious difference is the parliamentary instead of a presidential system (also found in most of Latin America). Maybe what the US really needs is a Prime Minister? [0] There's a lot more ways in which the Australian and Canadian systems differ from the US (and also from each other), but I think that's the most obvious one. Although that doesn't explain the UK's "going broke", since it has a parliamentary system too. Possible explanation: the UK lacks federalism [1], the US has overly strong federalism, Australia and Canada are more in the "sweet spot" in the middle of the federalism spectrum [0] doesn't require a monarchy, a Prime Minister can coexist with a figurehead President, as in Austria, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Malta, etc [1] ok, it has devolution, which while technically not federalism, is kind of like a very weak form of it
- rayiner 3y ago
  Both Canada and Australia have strong federalism. About half of all expenditure is run through the state and local governments in the US. In Australia it’s similar, and in Canada it’s 75%. I think the Presidential system has a lot to do with it. The people have a lot to do with it too. Large-scale immigration of Germans, then Irish and Italians, and now Hispanics has left a long tradition of ethnic machine politics in the U.S. that’s simply absent from Canadian and Australian politics. Even as say distinct Italian or Irish identity has diminished, our politics, especially on the left, is still centered around identity. In a typical national election, almost no political bandwidth is spent discussing efficiency of government services. Look at Obama—the archetype of the modern Democrat. What was his job before politics? He wasn’t a labor leader or anything like that. He was a community organizer in Chicago’s ethnic-based political machine. He’s inspired a generation of people on the left—necessarily, the ones who would otherwise be most invested in government efficiency and quality of services—to become activists for their various identity groups. Do you think those folks are going to become efficient and confident administrators when they grow up?
  - skissane 3y ago
    > Both Canada and Australia have strong federalism. About half of all expenditure is run through the state and local governments in the US. In Australia it’s similar, and in Canada it’s 75%. Just looking at who spends the money ignores some big differences. For example, unlike the US, Australia has a unified court and criminal justice system - the federal courts have jurisdiction to hear appeals even on purely state law questions; there are no federal prisons (federal prisoners serve their sentences in state prisons); outside of the military, almost all federal criminal trials happen in state courts (technically some federal courts have the jurisdiction to hold criminal trials, but that almost never happens-federal courts do try civil cases, but in criminal matters are effectively appellate only); state prosecutors can prosecute federal crimes and federal prosecutors can prosecute state crimes (common for federal prosecutors to add on lesser state charges and vice versa) Australia has institutions like the National Cabinet (council of heads of federal, state and territory governments) which have no parallel in the US-“cooperative federalism”. Formal agreements between the federal and state governments plays a big role in Australia’s federalism, lacks much of an equivalent in the US-e.g. Australia’s food safety system is governed by an agreement between Australia’s federal, state and territory governments, and also the national government of New Zealand. > The people have a lot to do with it too. Large-scale immigration of Germans, then Irish and Italians, and now Hispanics has left a long tradition of ethnic machine politics in the U.S. that’s simply absent from Canadian and Australian politics. Even as say distinct Italian or Irish identity has diminished, our politics, especially on the left, is still centered around identity Last time you made an argument like this, I pointed out it ignores the importance of figures like Daniel Mannix (Irish Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne, 1917-1963) and B.A.Santamaria (Italian Catholic anti-communist activist; his height of political influence was in the 1950s) in Australia’s political history - between them those two men changed the outcome of more than one national election And as to Canada, this argument of yours ignores the existence of Quebec, and also the (lesser) role that Anglophone-Francophone conflict has played in the history of some other provinces (e.g. New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba) > What was his job before politics? He wasn’t a labor leader or anything like that. He was a community organizer in Chicago’s ethnic-based political machine. Ethnic-based political organising exists in Australia too. For example, both major parties have done a lot of work on wooing the Chinese-Australian community, which includes interacting with that community’s social clubs, doing political interviews in Chinese language media, sometimes even running candidates from that background, etc