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What most of the posters in this thread don't realize is that US is effectively at war with China. China is working in front of the scenes to be the major fund

What most of the posters in this thread don't realize is that US is effectively at war with China. China is working in front of the scenes to be the major funder of Russia's war [1] against Europe, which is US's ally amongst the coalition of democratic countries. China is working behind the scenes to stop the supply of artillery shells to Ukraine. [2]. and it is increasingly and more visibly supplying Russia with military supplies. [3] People need to stop being so naive and realize that it's the aligned democratic countries (Ukraine, Europe, US, Australia, Canada, UK, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea) fighting against the last survival of dictatorships (Russia, China, Iran, North Korea). If you wish the dictatorships to win, please by all means, move there. [1] However, since 2022, China has amplified its purchase of cheaper Russian oil after the West hit Moscow with unprecedented sanctions https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/22/business/china-top-oil-supplier-2023-russia-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/22/business/china-top-oil-suppli... [2] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/03/02/world/politics/europe-ukraine-gunpowder-shortage/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/03/02/world/politics/... [3] https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-russia-alignment-cooperation-ukraine-war-military-supplies-putin-xi-jinpin/ https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/china-russia-alignment-co...

kelseyfrog 3y ago
Even if that's true, if we suspend our constitutional rights to conduct a war, then what's the point in having them? I thought they were inalienable. Imagine trying to suspend the 2nd amendment because of school shootings. The reason kinda doesn't matter when rights are on the line.
- amou234 3y ago
  Many times constitution was suspended in US during wartime [1]. Also, school shooting has a very low likelihood of causing US to collapse. Losing an adversarial war against a rival of similar size with nuclear weapons and a brainwashing mechanism via TikTok will. I for one do not want to live in a world controlled by China, where the state can weld me inside my apartment [2], find random reasons to jail me then extract organs from me [3] or many of the atrocious things China does. [1]https://www.military.com/history/6-times-martial-law-was-declared-and-constitution-suspended-united-states.html https://www.military.com/history/6-times-martial-law-was-dec... [2]https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818 https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818 [3] https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-killing-prisoners-for-transplants-forced-organ-harvesting-in-china/ https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-killing-... [3]
  - stefantalpalaru 3y ago
    [dead]
  - kelseyfrog 3y ago
    Sorry, but this just has an air of "My concerns are the only valid ones," that makes it hard to take seriously. I don't want to live in a world where my kids can get shot at school. I guess we just have different priorities, but I think it goes too far when we start saying, "Mine are right."
    - amou234 3y ago
      That's quite alright, I didn't expect to convince someone who believes that in a war for survival, an opposing dictatorship can freely operate the most powerful propaganda weapon humankind has known against the democracy. Just because you know, it's idealistic.
      - kelseyfrog 3y ago
        Can you walk me through the scenario you're envisioning? I'm having a hard time following the series of events that starts with the status quo of TikTok ownership and results in the Chinese state being able to harvest your organs. Can you paint me a picture of a timeline or a series of key turns that would lead to that outcome?
        amou234 3y ago
        Anything's possible I guess, I mean, did anyone expect that China would allow the release of the man made covid virus from its Wuhan biolab (intentionally, or unintentionally) out to the world, killing millions in the process and giving long covid to millions more? And US and UK would be the ones that developed the vaccine successfully, and allowed the rest of the world to fully function after 2 years? And China would be the one that couldn't come up with its own vaccine, and just decided to release it into the wild in 2022 and bury any sort of mention of mass covid deaths [1]? I mean, if it were the other way around, and US and the rest of world was still shut down after 2 years while China was fully functional, TikTok could have been used by China to incite civil unrest in democratic countries, leading some to its downfall. I mean, there's no way China would release a covid 2, right? [1]https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/02/china-million-covid-deaths-communist-party/673177/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/02/ch...
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  > Imagine trying to suspend the 2nd amendment because of school shootings. 2A is for well regulated militias, from an era when the government struggled to raise and maintain a standing army, and wasn't sure an army could even be trusted. 2A was antiquated long before schools started having to teach toddlers survival tactics.
rajamaka 3y ago
China also continues to trade with the US despite Russian sanctions on the US. Does this mean China is effectively at war with Russia too?
- amou234 3y ago
  Current trading activities doesn't mean much by themselves. Europe also still trades with Russia. This is sort of missing the forest for the trees. You have to look at whether there are concerted efforts from Europe/US to REDUCE trade with Russia/China, which is yes. And whether US/Europe is restricting China's military capability, which is yes.
  - whoevercares 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - rf15 3y ago
      We might not be in a direct, conventional, people-shooting-each-other war, but the trade war with them is absolutely raging and we are pretty evenly matched. It's a nightmare. One of the CCP's greatest strengths is to exploit/play our economics game better than ourselves, with all the advantages that brings.
drivingmenuts 3y ago
Doesn’t matter as far as the Constitution is concerned. It says “Congress shall make no law …”. Doesn’t add anything about “except in time of war” or “when it’s really inconvenient” or “when parents fail to monitor their child”.
BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago
Please don’t act like people who are against top down banning of apps in the usa are aligned with autocracy. That’s precisely the opposite of accurate.
- number_man 3y ago
  They are definitely aligned with the desire of autocracies. They may not realize it, but doesn't mean it's not the case.
  - BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
    This would be like if someone were against the government suppressing leftist groups and barring radicals from hollywood and such during the red scare because of the violation of civil liberties, then you walked up and said they were pro russia. Completely reductive.
justwph 3y ago
1. China was originally a significant importer of goods from Russia. Over the past two years, due to the lower oil prices from Russia, the import volume has increased by 30%. 2. The total purchasing amount from the European Union and India surpasses that of China, with no single entity making significant purchases of Russian energy. 3. Perhaps you should look into the historical records of energy procurement by India. In 2021, trade with Russia was essentially negligible, but it now constitutes 36%. The main financier behind the scenes should be clearer now.
engineer_22 3y ago
US is not at war with China. We are in a period of escalating tension, but have broad and far reaching economic, political, and social ties. Despite our disagreements, we have in the past and continue to cooperate on mutually beneficial terms. That said, the CCP is not hoping for the United States to suddenly become politically stabilized. They are not hoping for the US populace to embrace the current social and economic order which stands at odds to Chinese goals. The CCP is an extremely disciplined predator organization with a long-term outlook, and should be dealt with appropriately.

kelseyfrog 3y ago

Even if that's true, if we suspend our constitutional rights to conduct a war, then what's the point in having them? I thought they were inalienable. Imagine trying to suspend the 2nd amendment because of school shootings. The reason kinda doesn't matter when rights are on the line.

amou234 3y ago
Many times constitution was suspended in US during wartime [1]. Also, school shooting has a very low likelihood of causing US to collapse. Losing an adversarial war against a rival of similar size with nuclear weapons and a brainwashing mechanism via TikTok will. I for one do not want to live in a world controlled by China, where the state can weld me inside my apartment [2], find random reasons to jail me then extract organs from me [3] or many of the atrocious things China does. [1]https://www.military.com/history/6-times-martial-law-was-declared-and-constitution-suspended-united-states.html https://www.military.com/history/6-times-martial-law-was-dec... [2]https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818 https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818 [3] https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-killing-prisoners-for-transplants-forced-organ-harvesting-in-china/ https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-killing-... [3]
- stefantalpalaru 3y ago
  [dead]
- kelseyfrog 3y ago
  Sorry, but this just has an air of "My concerns are the only valid ones," that makes it hard to take seriously. I don't want to live in a world where my kids can get shot at school. I guess we just have different priorities, but I think it goes too far when we start saying, "Mine are right."
  - amou234 3y ago
    That's quite alright, I didn't expect to convince someone who believes that in a war for survival, an opposing dictatorship can freely operate the most powerful propaganda weapon humankind has known against the democracy. Just because you know, it's idealistic.
    - kelseyfrog 3y ago
      Can you walk me through the scenario you're envisioning? I'm having a hard time following the series of events that starts with the status quo of TikTok ownership and results in the Chinese state being able to harvest your organs. Can you paint me a picture of a timeline or a series of key turns that would lead to that outcome?
      - amou234 3y ago
        Anything's possible I guess, I mean, did anyone expect that China would allow the release of the man made covid virus from its Wuhan biolab (intentionally, or unintentionally) out to the world, killing millions in the process and giving long covid to millions more? And US and UK would be the ones that developed the vaccine successfully, and allowed the rest of the world to fully function after 2 years? And China would be the one that couldn't come up with its own vaccine, and just decided to release it into the wild in 2022 and bury any sort of mention of mass covid deaths [1]? I mean, if it were the other way around, and US and the rest of world was still shut down after 2 years while China was fully functional, TikTok could have been used by China to incite civil unrest in democratic countries, leading some to its downfall. I mean, there's no way China would release a covid 2, right? [1]https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/02/china-million-covid-deaths-communist-party/673177/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/02/ch...
paulryanrogers 3y ago
> Imagine trying to suspend the 2nd amendment because of school shootings. 2A is for well regulated militias, from an era when the government struggled to raise and maintain a standing army, and wasn't sure an army could even be trusted. 2A was antiquated long before schools started having to teach toddlers survival tactics.

rajamaka 3y ago

China also continues to trade with the US despite Russian sanctions on the US. Does this mean China is effectively at war with Russia too?

amou234 3y ago
Current trading activities doesn't mean much by themselves. Europe also still trades with Russia. This is sort of missing the forest for the trees. You have to look at whether there are concerted efforts from Europe/US to REDUCE trade with Russia/China, which is yes. And whether US/Europe is restricting China's military capability, which is yes.
- whoevercares 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - rf15 3y ago
    We might not be in a direct, conventional, people-shooting-each-other war, but the trade war with them is absolutely raging and we are pretty evenly matched. It's a nightmare. One of the CCP's greatest strengths is to exploit/play our economics game better than ourselves, with all the advantages that brings.

drivingmenuts 3y ago

Doesn’t matter as far as the Constitution is concerned. It says “Congress shall make no law …”. Doesn’t add anything about “except in time of war” or “when it’s really inconvenient” or “when parents fail to monitor their child”.

BriggyDwiggs42 3y ago

Please don’t act like people who are against top down banning of apps in the usa are aligned with autocracy. That’s precisely the opposite of accurate.

number_man 3y ago
They are definitely aligned with the desire of autocracies. They may not realize it, but doesn't mean it's not the case.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  This would be like if someone were against the government suppressing leftist groups and barring radicals from hollywood and such during the red scare because of the violation of civil liberties, then you walked up and said they were pro russia. Completely reductive.

justwph 3y ago

1. China was originally a significant importer of goods from Russia. Over the past two years, due to the lower oil prices from Russia, the import volume has increased by 30%. 2. The total purchasing amount from the European Union and India surpasses that of China, with no single entity making significant purchases of Russian energy. 3. Perhaps you should look into the historical records of energy procurement by India. In 2021, trade with Russia was essentially negligible, but it now constitutes 36%. The main financier behind the scenes should be clearer now.

engineer_22 3y ago

US is not at war with China. We are in a period of escalating tension, but have broad and far reaching economic, political, and social ties. Despite our disagreements, we have in the past and continue to cooperate on mutually beneficial terms. That said, the CCP is not hoping for the United States to suddenly become politically stabilized. They are not hoping for the US populace to embrace the current social and economic order which stands at odds to Chinese goals. The CCP is an extremely disciplined predator organization with a long-term outlook, and should be dealt with appropriately.