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From a business point, I can totally understand what Apple is doing. Making this as painful and unpredictable (as a developer you never know if your app will be

From a business point, I can totally understand what Apple is doing. Making this as painful and unpredictable (as a developer you never know if your app will be successfull and gain more than 1 million installs) is the way to keep developers using the old contract and keep them on the app store. This makes sense for Apple to find every loophole possible ... As a consumer, and an Apple users, I want them to be slapped as hard as possible for how they implement this.

frizlab 3y ago
Funny how things go. As a consumer especially, but even as a developer I don’t want the DMA to succeed and purposefully want iOS to be a walled garden. It’s literally one of the reasons why I’m on iOS!
- klaustopher 3y ago
  That's the nice thing about the DMA ... Nobody forces you to install a 3rd party app store, nobody forces you to install apps from websites, nobody forces you out of the walled garden. For you nothing changes. Those that want to use their 1000€ device differently than you now have the chance to.
  - frizlab 3y ago
    As the “tech guy” in the family things might change actually. (One of) the reasons why I like the walled garden is how it simplifies everything troubleshooting-wise. I have a few quirks to know, the rest is because of hardware failure and that’s it. My peer not being tech-savvy might install stupid things from stupid places and it might be a problem. The way it’s done it’s unlikely, but still it just complexify things for next to no reasons in my book. (Yes 30% is a lot; I personally don’t care, though I do recognize I’m a good position and I can afford not to–but then again, the most vocal about the 30% are not the most unwealthy…)
    - klaustopher 3y ago
      That's also solveable. For android you need to enable deep inside of the settings to allow 3rd party installs. Nobody is preventing Apple to do something like this. Or that you can create a profile that disables that setting that you can install on your familys devices. Nothing in the DMA prevents this. Just because it makes your life easier as the family tech support is a pretty selfish reason to hope for a very good pro-consumer law to fail.
      - frizlab 3y ago
        The way it’s going I’m actually pretty sure if they did that they’d get reprimanded… Also it makes my life annoying when I open Safari and am presented w/ what can be told as the worst pop-up ever and have to spend literally minutes dismissing it for something I neither wanted nor needed. It’s the cookie banner all over again. Does not seem like a lot, but as a developer I use devices in a factory configuration a lot, and it’s just as annoying as it’s useless. Basically it’s the cookie banner again. Served no-one (at least definitely not the consumers), but annoyed a lot. As for the “those that want to use their 1000€ device differently than you now have the chance to,” well……… nobody forced them to buy a 1000€ device did they?? They knew of the limitations; they had to, or they’re very dumb. The law is not pro-consumer contrary to people say, it’s anti-garden, which is definitely not the same, and I’ll die on this hill.
        _v7gu 3y ago
        > Basically it’s the cookie banner again. Served no-one (at least definitely not the consumers), but annoyed a lot. Oh no, you have to be given the option to not permit your data to be shared with ~1000 different partners with "legitimate" interests. Honestly, the only thing that is wrong with GDPR is that it came out too late.
        frizlab 3y ago
        90% of the websites today use google analytics which is not GDPR compliant, and yet nothing happens. Ironically Apple did more for privacy than GDPR ever did, and was able to enforce it… by having a walled garden!
- internetter 3y ago
  For years Apple has placed deliberately crafted limitations on 3rd party apps that put theirs at an advantage. They've done anything but treat developers fairly. If they did, maybe this legislation was unneeded, but with the way they've been acting, it feels like a long time coming. Edit: self plug: https://boehs.org/node/private-apis https://boehs.org/node/private-apis
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rchaud 3y ago
  Opening up the app store doesn't force you step outside the walled garden.
  - frizlab 3y ago
    Until some apps are not in the App Store or a website is chromium-compatible only… Or that apps (e.g. youtube) outside the App Store is surprisingly more feature-complete than the equivalent in the App Store… Don’t worry they’ll find a way to make it socially mandatory (the same way not having a google account nowadays seems impossible (I don’t personally but still do because of work for instance)).
    - asadotzler 3y ago
      And if you don't trust an app vendor without Apple's underpaid Chinese reviewers playing with it on an iPad for 5 minutes to guarantee your safety, then don't use those apps that pull out of the App Store. If YouTube or FB pull out of Apple's App Store and go to their own, Apple will have to cut it's hosting fees to get them back or lose that business and you'll suffer not because Google and FB pulled out of the App Store but because Apple pushed them out with exorbitant fees. You should want Apple facing that threat because it'll lead to lower App Store prices as developers won't pad a $5 app with $1.50 in extra cost to you to cover the exorbitant Apple fees. But you'd rather blame users who want to run what ever software they want on the computers they purchased than blame Apple's shitty business practices. That's on you, bud.
      - frizlab 3y ago
        Once again there are alternatives; nobody forced anybody to buy iPhones. It’s not like Apple lied at any point saying “buy our phones and do whatever you want on them!” No. It’s clear. You do what they want. In what name should they be forced to “open” it to anybody? What’s next? Force google to make their map data open? How would that go? It’s mostly the same thing.
        toyg 3y ago
- Nevermark 3y ago
  I doubt it. "Walled" and "Safety" are getting confused here. I think you like the App Store for its safety. You trust it, enough to be happy with it. What does that have to do with wanting others to be denied alternatives? That deliver however much safety and different benefits that other people want? If safety is one of Apple store's selling points, then competitive app stores will push Apple to deliver even more safety. Perhaps new forms of safety others pioneer. Apple didn't invent security or sandboxes. While also encouraging it to loosen non-safety driven (and therefore quietly non-customer friendly) restrictions on innovation. That can only benefit you.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

frizlab 3y ago

Funny how things go. As a consumer especially, but even as a developer I don’t want the DMA to succeed and purposefully want iOS to be a walled garden. It’s literally one of the reasons why I’m on iOS!

klaustopher 3y ago
That's the nice thing about the DMA ... Nobody forces you to install a 3rd party app store, nobody forces you to install apps from websites, nobody forces you out of the walled garden. For you nothing changes. Those that want to use their 1000€ device differently than you now have the chance to.
- frizlab 3y ago
  As the “tech guy” in the family things might change actually. (One of) the reasons why I like the walled garden is how it simplifies everything troubleshooting-wise. I have a few quirks to know, the rest is because of hardware failure and that’s it. My peer not being tech-savvy might install stupid things from stupid places and it might be a problem. The way it’s done it’s unlikely, but still it just complexify things for next to no reasons in my book. (Yes 30% is a lot; I personally don’t care, though I do recognize I’m a good position and I can afford not to–but then again, the most vocal about the 30% are not the most unwealthy…)
  - klaustopher 3y ago
    That's also solveable. For android you need to enable deep inside of the settings to allow 3rd party installs. Nobody is preventing Apple to do something like this. Or that you can create a profile that disables that setting that you can install on your familys devices. Nothing in the DMA prevents this. Just because it makes your life easier as the family tech support is a pretty selfish reason to hope for a very good pro-consumer law to fail.
    - frizlab 3y ago
      The way it’s going I’m actually pretty sure if they did that they’d get reprimanded… Also it makes my life annoying when I open Safari and am presented w/ what can be told as the worst pop-up ever and have to spend literally minutes dismissing it for something I neither wanted nor needed. It’s the cookie banner all over again. Does not seem like a lot, but as a developer I use devices in a factory configuration a lot, and it’s just as annoying as it’s useless. Basically it’s the cookie banner again. Served no-one (at least definitely not the consumers), but annoyed a lot. As for the “those that want to use their 1000€ device differently than you now have the chance to,” well……… nobody forced them to buy a 1000€ device did they?? They knew of the limitations; they had to, or they’re very dumb. The law is not pro-consumer contrary to people say, it’s anti-garden, which is definitely not the same, and I’ll die on this hill.
      - _v7gu 3y ago
        > Basically it’s the cookie banner again. Served no-one (at least definitely not the consumers), but annoyed a lot. Oh no, you have to be given the option to not permit your data to be shared with ~1000 different partners with "legitimate" interests. Honestly, the only thing that is wrong with GDPR is that it came out too late.
        frizlab 3y ago
        90% of the websites today use google analytics which is not GDPR compliant, and yet nothing happens. Ironically Apple did more for privacy than GDPR ever did, and was able to enforce it… by having a walled garden!
internetter 3y ago
For years Apple has placed deliberately crafted limitations on 3rd party apps that put theirs at an advantage. They've done anything but treat developers fairly. If they did, maybe this legislation was unneeded, but with the way they've been acting, it feels like a long time coming. Edit: self plug: https://boehs.org/node/private-apis https://boehs.org/node/private-apis
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rchaud 3y ago
Opening up the app store doesn't force you step outside the walled garden.
- frizlab 3y ago
  Until some apps are not in the App Store or a website is chromium-compatible only… Or that apps (e.g. youtube) outside the App Store is surprisingly more feature-complete than the equivalent in the App Store… Don’t worry they’ll find a way to make it socially mandatory (the same way not having a google account nowadays seems impossible (I don’t personally but still do because of work for instance)).
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    And if you don't trust an app vendor without Apple's underpaid Chinese reviewers playing with it on an iPad for 5 minutes to guarantee your safety, then don't use those apps that pull out of the App Store. If YouTube or FB pull out of Apple's App Store and go to their own, Apple will have to cut it's hosting fees to get them back or lose that business and you'll suffer not because Google and FB pulled out of the App Store but because Apple pushed them out with exorbitant fees. You should want Apple facing that threat because it'll lead to lower App Store prices as developers won't pad a $5 app with $1.50 in extra cost to you to cover the exorbitant Apple fees. But you'd rather blame users who want to run what ever software they want on the computers they purchased than blame Apple's shitty business practices. That's on you, bud.
    - frizlab 3y ago
      Once again there are alternatives; nobody forced anybody to buy iPhones. It’s not like Apple lied at any point saying “buy our phones and do whatever you want on them!” No. It’s clear. You do what they want. In what name should they be forced to “open” it to anybody? What’s next? Force google to make their map data open? How would that go? It’s mostly the same thing.
      - toyg 3y ago
Nevermark 3y ago
I doubt it. "Walled" and "Safety" are getting confused here. I think you like the App Store for its safety. You trust it, enough to be happy with it. What does that have to do with wanting others to be denied alternatives? That deliver however much safety and different benefits that other people want? If safety is one of Apple store's selling points, then competitive app stores will push Apple to deliver even more safety. Perhaps new forms of safety others pioneer. Apple didn't invent security or sandboxes. While also encouraging it to loosen non-safety driven (and therefore quietly non-customer friendly) restrictions on innovation. That can only benefit you.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]