5 ms·

On the other hand, you can actually use it to buy things which is nice

anonym29 3y ago
You can do the same with bitcoin too. I don't know if you heard the news, but there are now enormous liquidity pools of billions of dollars that enable realtime conversion between BTC and USD, and they even automatically handle generating all of the tax forms for you too! This liquidity is so massive and the clearing so instantaneous that you can even get a bitcoin debit card. Open account, deposit bitcoin, spend directly in USD via debit card!
- kortilla 3y ago
  That’s not buying things with bitcoin. That’s buying with USD and having something convert last minute. It’s no different than a brokerage card that sells stock to cover transactions.
  - anonym29 3y ago
    By that logic, nobody ever buys anything. Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either, there's complex technical and financial underpinning for the entire PCI industry. Arguing that using a BTC debit card to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with Bitcoin because the bitcoin you deposited is not sent directly to the merchant is like arguing that using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. It's a nonsensical semantic argument entirely detached from the important aspect, which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it wherever you can use a visa/mastercard with zero friction, as easy as using your credit card.
    - namaria 3y ago
      > Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either But dollars change hands (or accounts) at the end. > using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. Nobody made that argument. You did and argued against it. > which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it You buy and sell cryptocurrency so you can use the currency you started with. The added two steps of buying and selling crypto are immaterial to buying what you want. You merely invested and divested in a speculative asset, you didn't use it as currency.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Credit cards are dollar valued. Your argument doesn’t make sense
lisper 3y ago
These two things are not unrelated. Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. One of the reasons the Great Depression lasted as long as it did was the Fed's tight money policy. And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. Bitcoin is deflationary by design. That makes it a great asset but a terrible currency.
- anonym29 3y ago
  > Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. Maybe from your perspective. From mine, it's as unwelcome of a "feature" as malvertising. If I can choose to opt out of this "feature", I will, and I do. Thank goodness we have the legal freedom of choice to do so, and that bitcoin really exists, rather than still just being a concept on paper. > It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. Who defines 'hoard' and 'too long'? If your definitions don't match mine, why should I be forced to respect your opinions? Simple answer: I choose to ignore them, because I can. I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor, even if they do it "for the good of society as a whole". Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. >And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. You want to talk about real bubbles? Look no further than the increase in value between securities and house prices relative to average incomes. That's the fed's money spigot. It didn't save the day, it just hyperinflated the bubble.
  - JDEW 3y ago
    > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor… This bit I agree with, although I would add that salary (i.e. plain cash) alone as the fruit of labour is insufficient and unfair, and amounts to wage slavery. > Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. Those are interlinked, as living in a bunker is not good for your wellbeing.
  - creato 3y ago
    > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor If you were operating in a barter economy, as you seem to wish for, the value of your labor would not be guaranteed to have stable value either, and would likely be far more volatile (especially depending on what the product of your labor is... you think farmers can demand their product not decay in value over time?). You just wouldn't have a convenient boogeyman to complain about, but I guess that's better to you?
datatrashfire 3y ago
and pay taxes
- anonym29 3y ago
  "my currency is legit because that's the only currency accepted by the gang who threatens to use violence to abduct and imprison me in the middle of the the night for refusing to pay the protection (racketeering) payments they demand from me"
dvngnt_ 3y ago
pretty sure you can with bitcoin too. in fact, I'm sure the person who bought pizza with it is regretting his decision
- donw 3y ago
  Dude who made the pizza sure isn’t, though.

You can do the same with bitcoin too. I don't know if you heard the news, but there are now enormous liquidity pools of billions of dollars that enable realtime conversion between BTC and USD, and they even automatically handle generating all of the tax forms for you too! This liquidity is so massive and the clearing so instantaneous that you can even get a bitcoin debit card. Open account, deposit bitcoin, spend directly in USD via debit card!

kortilla 3y ago
That’s not buying things with bitcoin. That’s buying with USD and having something convert last minute. It’s no different than a brokerage card that sells stock to cover transactions.
- anonym29 3y ago
  By that logic, nobody ever buys anything. Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either, there's complex technical and financial underpinning for the entire PCI industry. Arguing that using a BTC debit card to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with Bitcoin because the bitcoin you deposited is not sent directly to the merchant is like arguing that using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. It's a nonsensical semantic argument entirely detached from the important aspect, which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it wherever you can use a visa/mastercard with zero friction, as easy as using your credit card.
  - namaria 3y ago
    > Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either But dollars change hands (or accounts) at the end. > using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. Nobody made that argument. You did and argued against it. > which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it You buy and sell cryptocurrency so you can use the currency you started with. The added two steps of buying and selling crypto are immaterial to buying what you want. You merely invested and divested in a speculative asset, you didn't use it as currency.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Credit cards are dollar valued. Your argument doesn’t make sense

lisper 3y ago

These two things are not unrelated. Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. One of the reasons the Great Depression lasted as long as it did was the Fed's tight money policy. And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. Bitcoin is deflationary by design. That makes it a great asset but a terrible currency.

anonym29 3y ago
> Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. Maybe from your perspective. From mine, it's as unwelcome of a "feature" as malvertising. If I can choose to opt out of this "feature", I will, and I do. Thank goodness we have the legal freedom of choice to do so, and that bitcoin really exists, rather than still just being a concept on paper. > It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. Who defines 'hoard' and 'too long'? If your definitions don't match mine, why should I be forced to respect your opinions? Simple answer: I choose to ignore them, because I can. I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor, even if they do it "for the good of society as a whole". Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. >And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. You want to talk about real bubbles? Look no further than the increase in value between securities and house prices relative to average incomes. That's the fed's money spigot. It didn't save the day, it just hyperinflated the bubble.
- JDEW 3y ago
  > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor… This bit I agree with, although I would add that salary (i.e. plain cash) alone as the fruit of labour is insufficient and unfair, and amounts to wage slavery. > Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. Those are interlinked, as living in a bunker is not good for your wellbeing.
- creato 3y ago
  > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor If you were operating in a barter economy, as you seem to wish for, the value of your labor would not be guaranteed to have stable value either, and would likely be far more volatile (especially depending on what the product of your labor is... you think farmers can demand their product not decay in value over time?). You just wouldn't have a convenient boogeyman to complain about, but I guess that's better to you?

datatrashfire 3y ago

and pay taxes

anonym29 3y ago
"my currency is legit because that's the only currency accepted by the gang who threatens to use violence to abduct and imprison me in the middle of the the night for refusing to pay the protection (racketeering) payments they demand from me"

dvngnt_ 3y ago

pretty sure you can with bitcoin too. in fact, I'm sure the person who bought pizza with it is regretting his decision

donw 3y ago
Dude who made the pizza sure isn’t, though.